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Author Topic: AC power supply to NOS1  (Read 18102 times)
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manisandher
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« on: April 22, 2014, 02:49:23 pm »

I couldn't find a nice thread to put this in, so thought I'd start a new one.

As part of my preparation for my new Orelo MkII speakers (see http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2886.0), I now have my NOS1 pretty much totally isolated mechanically from the listening room.

I've been thinking about how best to power it. I already have two separate 5KVA balanced transformers in place - one solely for linear PSUs and one for SMPSs. The PC runs off the latter and the NOS1 and amps together off the former. And it's this that I've been thinking about...

Up until recently, I've been using class-A power amps. So even with loud peaks in the music, there should not have been any voltage modulation on the AC line. But with my current setup (BD-Design gainclone amps and low-efficiency Celestion SL600 speakers), there might be some voltage modulation. My hypothesis was that this might affect the performance of the NOS1 - a tiny, tiny modulation on the supply voltage in sympathy with the music signal. In any event, I thought I'd try to minimise this as much as possible by employing an old PS Audio P300 balanced AC regenerator that I had lying around doing nothing. I now have the P300 plugged directly into the 5KVA balanced transformer and have it powering nothing but the NOS1.

Well, what can I say? The sound seems to have been transformed. Really... transformed.

But before I get too carried away, I'd like to live with this setup for another couple of days and then go back to the setup sans balanced AC regenerator. Will be back with more views...

Meanwhile, I'd be interested in hearing any opinions on my thinking here...

Mani.
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Stanray
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 09:53:08 pm »

Since day one I have my NOS1 (and computer) plugged into my Purepower 1050 regenerator.

One time I bypassed the Purepower and plugged it in the "normal" (dedicated) mains, but that lasted only for a few tracks.
It sounded "sloppy" by comparison. no

Regards,
Stanley
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manisandher
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 01:40:26 pm »

Hey Stanley, I have a PurePower 2000 regenerator. It definitely changes the sound - there's no question about that. And I think you're right to plug both the NOS1 and computer into it. But here's another thing you might want to consider...

The Purepower regenerators having big switch-mode power supplies. These (as all big SMPSs) are prone to inject a lot of noise back into the AC line. If you have other components on the 'regular' AC line, they might be affected by this noise. My feeling is that it might be better for you to run your whole system off your single Purepower regenerator.

Of course, this assumes that your 1050 has a big enough output. If you're using high-efficiency speakers, then you might be OK.

I know people who have bought multiple Purepower regenerators - one for the power amps, one for the digital sources and one for the preamp, etc. But this doesn't really work, apparently. What seems to happen is that the noise injected by each Purepower unit back into the AC line starts interfering with the other Purepower units.

For my part, my Purepower 2000 sits gathering dust in my basement. Having spent a fortune getting a dedicated AC line installed with a couple of balanced transformers, I can't bear the thought of injecting noise back into the AC line. But this is probably more of a psychological issue on my part than anything else.

Feel free to totally ignore this post if it's of no use to you.

Mani.
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Stanray
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 11:33:10 pm »

The Purepower regenerators having big switch-mode power supplies. These (as all big SMPSs) are prone to inject a lot of noise back into the AC line. If you have other components on the 'regular' AC line, they might be affected by this noise. My feeling is that it might be better for you to run your whole system off your single Purepower regenerator.

Of course, this assumes that your 1050 has a big enough output. If you're using high-efficiency speakers, then you might be OK.

I agree with you that it would be better to plug all the audio components into one Purepower, but that isn't possible.
First, my speakers are not too efficient and have a 1 ohm impedance  wacko, so my poweramps are not small. 

Second, the poweramps are located near the speakers away from the Purepower and it would require very long powercords. So even a bigger Purepower model isn't usable in my situation.

I have a 3 phase connection, one phase dedicated for audio, the other 2 for different floors in the house. I plan to plug the Purepower in one of the non-audio connections and see if it makes a difference.

But in the current situation the Purepower give a better SQ than without or with the PS Audio Power Plant Premier I had earlier.

Regards
Stanley
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September 2021: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM/ XXHE 2.11 / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/1 / Q1Factor = 4/ Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 10ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 10.13 (max 10,13)/ No Filter/ not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Peak Extend Off /Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback/ UnAttended / All Services Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : 62, 1, -, 1, 1/ Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Custom Filtering Low (16x) / -> Lush^3 USB-cable 70cm (A: W-Y-R-G, B: W-G) > Phasure NOS1a 75B G3 DAC, Driver v1.0.4) (16ms)/ Output via Balanced Blaxius BNC Interlinks > Audio Analogue Maestro monoblock amplifier > speakers: Apogee Acoustics Scintilla (custom rebuild).
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 06:30:26 pm »

Mani hi,

Your experience using separate balanced transformers sounds similar to what happened here.

A while ago I was getting with slightly confused sound which got markedly worse on complex music with lots of bass energy. When this was happening I had the complete system plugged into a single 3kva balanced mains transformer. I tried plugging my active speaker bass amp modules (rated at 150w class B i think each) into the normal house supply (eg not the balanced transformer) and was supprised that sound got much better. The improvment was so good I bought  a second 3kva balanced transformer just for the active bass amp modules. The original balanced transformer powers PC, NOS1, balanced gainclones (these only typically draw 9 watts from the transformer). The second transformer to power bass really improved sound at lot.

Best Nick.

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 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
manisandher
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 11:06:05 am »

Oh dear, what have I done?

Whilst walking past the stack of PSUs outside my 'vinyl studio', I noticed that the PS Audio P300 regenerator powering just the NOS1 was quite hot to touch. This seemed strange, as the NOS1 isn't really drawing much current. In any event, I thought I'd try things without the P300 to see if I could eliminate it. And...

... no way! The sound without it is too 'shouty'. In your face. The delicacy has gone. Seems I've become addicted to the sound with the P300 in place.

So what exactly could be going on here?

Well, first the heat being generated. The P300 accepts the UK's 240V no problem. However, it is only designed to output balanced 120V. Because of this, PS Audio fitted a beefy 1:2 step-up transformer at its output. This is obviously not very efficient and gets pretty hot itself. Also, I regularly measure 250V+ AC here. I have the P300 set to output a stready 230V 50Hz. I wonder if this is stressing some of the voltage regulators in the P300. Dunno.

And as for what's causing the obvious improvement in the sound? Well, going back to the 250V+ here, maybe this is simply too high for the NOS1 to work optimally? And there's also the main reason I wanted to try the P300 in the first place - to minimize any affects of running the NOS1 off the same circuit as the power amps.

The upshot of all this is that the NOS1 works much better powered from the P300 than it does powered directly. I'm a little worried about the heat. I can replace a fan that I took out of the P300 when I bought it >10 years ago, knowing that it would only ever power low-current source components. This should obviously help. But beyond that, it's got me thinking about buying a new AC regenerator. Does anyone know of one that outputs balanced 230V (without the need of a step up trannie) and that does NOT use a switch-mode power supply (like the Purepower units, one of which I already have)?

Maybe a much cheaper option would be to replace the NOS1's transformers and PSUs for ones optimized for 240V? Peter?

Mani.
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Office System:
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PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 12:18:40 pm »

Mani,

Quote
And as for what's causing the obvious improvement in the sound? Well, going back to the 250V+ here, maybe this is simply too high for the NOS1 to work optimally?

I wouldn't know why.

Quote
I have the P300 set to output a stready 230V 50Hz. I wonder if this is stressing some of the voltage regulators in the P300. Dunno.

I don't know how the regulation of the P300 works, but I'd say that the lower you go (like from 230V to 220V) the more heat. So why not trying it the other way around ? make it 240V and see whether it's more cool.
If the regulation can be switched off I'd try that too. But don't forget the step-up - that should remain active of course.

Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
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Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 01:03:04 am »

Hello,

I read a review about a turntable battery PSU in a German HiFi paper today. The shop price is € 1700,00. A similar unit should be possible to built for a NOS1?!?
The Dartzeel preamp has a built in battery banque and an external PSU too, and the difference of the SQ is relavant.

http://clearaudio.de/en/products/electronics-accu_drive.php

The PDF shows an open PSU housing.

Joachim

* Battery PSU.pdf (513 KB - downloaded 549 times.)
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