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Author Topic: NOS1a : A new "tweak"  (Read 30999 times)
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Scroobius
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2014, 09:12:09 pm »

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Hi Paul, have you tried any lengths between 0.25m and 5m?

Yes and I do not hear any significant difference.

Quote
get yourself a more transparent pair of speakers

they are on order ha ha!!!!

Paul
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2014, 10:17:25 pm »

Hmm. I wonder what's really going on with USB. I'm hearing quite obvious changes with different cables, you're not.

Whatever's happening, I'm just glad that one of my cables sounds particularly good, and it just happens to be the longest 5m one, which allows me to keep my PC in the basement.

Mani.
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2014, 04:56:11 am »

I envy many of you, capable of discerning such minutes differences ! Happy I do hear some differences from time to time, but it happens more by accident than anything else and it is each time very tiny. Like Paul said about the differences in USB cables length, I am quite sure I would fail miserably with a blind test for most of what I have discovered. But I am fascinated by those abilities and I try to apply a few things here and there to improve on what I have.

Just to say "Thanks" for all of you that are sharing your discoveries !

Alain Happy
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Scroobius
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2014, 08:55:21 am »


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I envy many of you, capable of discerning such minutes differences !

Yep I have to emphasise that the differences I hear with the Dexa's are small. Many would say they are insignificant I know my music loving mate David would question my sanity if I said it was important. I was listening again last night and on voice the difference is clear - I would certainly score 100% on a blind test with the right test music. But I think there are two conclusions:  1. Peter has done a fantastic job with NOS1a  2. The USB link must generate copious amounts of noise.

What is clear is that NOS1a is now very immune to USB noise - Peter has done a fantastic job for sure.
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2014, 11:16:06 am »

Hey,

I hope I speak for many more, but personally I love to see discussion going on, which seemed doomed to be out forever. I mean, not being able to even theoretically apply changes/tweaks in the end does not look to be appealing to my myself. Just put on some album and listen to it like yesterday ... bweh.

But apparantly it is not so easy;
As it looks "we" dedicate the perceived differences to a pair of maybe super high resolution speakers, but to me this looks a too easy explanation. But, can be.
With now my $1 cable in there for the thrid day yesterday, I *again* want to listen everything all over. But also this :

With the sound as it is now with this cable I seem to perceive a whole plethora of detail information in, say, the percussion area. Just think of something "stupid" like Echos (PF) and how instead of a 20 minute fairly dead track this turned into a hard working drummer with the smallest of variations on drum kit elements which I never heard before. Let's say this is the ultimate of accuracy. However :
This seems to go along with all my "ambient" super sh*t now being dead. There's no room left for variances which synthesizers now NOT seem to be able to. And :
Since the NOS1a this already was more of the case. Now though my appetite of playing such "music" has almost dropped to zero.

Self thought explanation (based on "my logic") :

If synths play the game and they do that with very low jitter, hence inifinitely more low than a normal drummer or "base line maker etc." would ever be able to, then the playback jitter of our system can compensate for that. And when that is out you hear ... synthesizers. I mean, no matter you may not be able to recongize it is synths at all (because sampled sounds).
So they become dead.

If this is true for a reaon, then it should mean that my 1$ cable (which you all received just the same) is (somehow) able to bring jitter more down than it already was, but that this is also still audible easily.

At this moment I don't know yet how to measure this effect which should enter via the backdoor (via mains I mean), but I think I will be able to close that door. And if then the cable doesn't make a difference any more, we'll at least know what the next steps can be.
secret

Meanwhile all (skip the synths) is sounding so good now that I again entered an explicit phase of "ok, this improvement will never stop I guess";
We just have no clue how a next improvement will sound. Well, me not.

Peter
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2014, 12:05:40 pm »



At this moment I don't know yet how to measure this effect which should enter via the backdoor (via mains I mean), but I think I will be able to close that door. And if then the cable doesn't make a difference any more, we'll at least know what the next steps can be.
secret


Ok, I see your reasoning here...noise IS being blocked from the front door (the USB port of the dac) but some of it is coming through the back door (via the mains power).  Peter, how likely do you think it is that some noise is getting in through the window (or airborne)?  Guys, when you tested the longer cables did you place the NOS1a further away or was it in the same position when you did your listening tests?

Cheers,

Anthony
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PeterSt
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2014, 12:23:09 pm »

Anthony, highly likely (but for other reasons you might think of). Btw, I wasn't hinting at that at all, but that does not matter.

I now need to measure a few things plus I need som "reference situation" I must think of, but I can't say I really have the time for that ...

Thanks,
Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
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For a general PC :
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*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2014, 12:40:59 pm »

I suppose that each time (as you have proven Peter) a layer of noise that is removed allows lesser noise to be heard...

Even if the image is not really pertinent to all situations, I see something like "russian dolls" as a comparison...

Alain
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2014, 01:22:58 pm »

Guys, when you tested the longer cables did you place the NOS1a further away or was it in the same position when you did your listening tests?

In my case, everything stayed in the same position - only the USB cables were changed.

Having said this, my NOS1a is now back in my little 'isolated studio' in my basement and I'm using my 10m ICs. I'm using the 5m USB cable to the PC (also in the basement, but not in the 'studio'). And the sound is very, very nice indeed. The studio cuts out a lot of RF as I had a semi-Faraday cage built around it - my mobile phone signal goes to zero as soon as I enter. I'm not sure if this shielding is contributing at all.

Mani.
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 01:55:38 pm »

NOS1 was v close to my PC to allow connection of the 25cm USB  cable and was not moved when longer USB cables were tried.

Quote
I suppose that each time (as you have proven Peter) a layer of noise that is removed allows lesser noise to be heard...

...otherwise known as "when the window is opened further". And that's what I did last night. It was so hot that I opened the windows which was great because lots of cool air came in - but along with the cool air came some flies - I guess that just about sums it up with this hobby!

By the way when I listened to different lengths of USB cable it was via the USB link with Dexa's at each end so maybe that could explain why Mani is getting different results as my link probably has much less noise.

Paul
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2014, 02:49:11 pm »

Has anyone tried a USB3.0 cable instead of a USB2.0?

Juan
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« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2014, 01:50:20 pm »

I've been listening to the NOS1a for a while now and I think I cannot add to the oohs, aahs and wows that have passed in previous impressions. They are simply true: the NOS1a is a fantastic machine good!

I have to admit that it took some effort to arrive at the level of playback I'm listening to now, and I even feel there is potential for improvement by tweaking it further.

Before jumping into the USB cable swap '"tweak" I think I should warn new owners that I had to completely redo my power distribution. This is about the connection of the 'black wire', isolation of the PC USB card and most importantly the 'phasing' and grounding of the power plugs.

I can hear little if any difference in software settings now, but hear BIG differences in power connections. No doubt that the USB will add to that.

I'm sorry that you will have to discover the optimum for yourself since every systems power supply is different and will have a different optimal solution. Just be aware that it is significant.
One thing you will probably know already is that you will have to connect the components with the smallest AC voltage on the signal ground between them (of course leave the two powered on and unconnected). In my case this was a difference between 47Vac vs 11Vac just by inverting the power supply of the amp.

regards, Coen
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Settings: Qn: , SFS: , timeres: XT tweaks: , buf: 4096, driver: 8 ms,

Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
PeterSt
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« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2014, 07:28:33 am »

Well done Coen and great that you achieved such a difference.

Is that 11VAC stable ? I mean, can you notice that it changes by means of *other* apparatus being switched on/off ? Like your million phone chargers, dishwasher, lights, beer tap ...
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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nik.d
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« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2014, 10:29:52 am »

Coen, you get 47V AC or 11V AC Neutral to PE ??
 
And for PCI card isolation: did anyone really tested isolation? 'Cause (my case at least) as soon as card is put in slot
or molex connector is in, there is connection PCI card (gnd plane) - PC chassis. As if card's bracket is normally fitted & bolted.
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XXHE 2.11a / W10 14393.0 / Asrock Extreme4-M, Xeon E5-2648L, 16GB DDR3 / NOS1, Starcrimson GaNFET monoblocks, GR Research 'Venuette' OB
PeterSt
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« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2014, 11:05:13 am »

Quote
Coen, you get 47V AC or 11V AC Neutral to PE ??

Chassis to chassis, like NOS1(a) to Amp (without interconnects).

Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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