XXHighEnd - The Ultra HighEnd Audio Player
October 18, 2017, 02:55:10 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: August 6, 2017 : Phasure Webshop open ! Go to the Shop
Search current board structure only !!  
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ  (Read 161978 times)
0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.
christoffe
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 754


View Profile Email
« on: September 07, 2014, 12:50:26 am »

Hi Peter,
another homepage  “stumbled” across my eyes in the internet.

For information the link for us „Krauts“ in this forum
http://www.audiophil-online.de/themen/bnc-stecker.html
and
the homepage of the German manuf.  Phonosophie ( a reputated name  in the HiFi scene) http://www.phonosophie.de/International/everbindung3.html

In general  Phonosophie recommends to attach BNC adapters  to the  RCA connectors  for a better SQ.

So I rummage around my surplus for a 50Ohm BNC cable and appropriate 50Ohm RCA/BNC adapters bought 3 years ago.

After the exchange of the cables (between the NOS1 and the power amp)  I was quite shocked. My brain tells me (hearing an old Herbie Hancock record) there are a hell of distortions. Changing to one of my test records the same impression but with much more details in the beginning, and after a while it dawned to me, there are overtones never heard before.

To make long stories short:

1)   This cable with the BNC connector is “merciless” to your whole setup, and will reveal a wrong setup of the speakers (placement of the speaker in the room).
2)   Cymbals are more detailed
3)   Bass is amazing without any distortions down to the low frequencies. I hear the Stanley Clarkes bass on the record “Romantic Warrior” as I remember it from a  “Return To Forever” concert in 2010. ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Returns-Chick-Corea-Return-Forever/dp/B001HPGRSQ/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1410041716&sr=8-12&keywords=return+to+forever%2C+live )
4)   More air between the instruments
5)   Less distortions over all frequencies.
6)   I had to "readjust" my speakers. (to turn them more to the sweet spot/listening place)

I heard the “seagull” record new. ( this tune is one of the best recordings with an amazing 3D image)

I do believe that this cable is something for our English tweak freaks. ( I used an ordinary Dartzeel 50 Ohm BNC cable (coaxial) for computer connections - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable )

Regards

Joachim
Logged
CoenP
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 808


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 01:19:58 am »

Hi Jachim,

I am Reading correctly that you are running the NOS into 50 ohms? Or is it just extra plugs rca-Bnc * 50 ohm cable *Bnc-rca?

Regards, Coen
Logged

Audio PC: XXHE PC with RAMdisk. Music PC with i5. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Set of Clarixa, Intona, Phasure NOS1a-75B USB (buf 4 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + MiniDSP/T.amp3000-> biwired QED cable-> Bastanis Mandala Duo.

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
christoffe
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 754


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 01:31:31 am »

Hi Jachim,

I am Reading correctly that you are running the NOS into 50 ohms? Or is it just extra plugs rca-Bnc * 50 ohm cable *Bnc-rca?

Regards, Coen

Hi Coen,

rca-Bnc * 50 ohm cable *Bnc-rca

= correct

The adapter has a resistance of 50Ohms too.

Joachim

Edit: When I'm reading the first sentences here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable#Choice_of_impedance
everything should be ok.

I had to increase due to the 50Ohms the XXH volume from -31,5 to -28,5 for the same SPL.

Edit II: Note to Mani - this BNC cable, details and photo later today, might help to place the NOS1 + PC outside of the listening room without a degeneration of the SQ.
Logged
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1959

www.the-unfair-advantage.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 07:45:44 am »

Edit II: Note to Mani - this BNC cable, details and photo later today, might help to place the NOS1 + PC outside of the listening room without a degeneration of the SQ.

Hi Joachim, I'm very interested in this. Please share the details when you have some time.

Mani.
Logged

Audio PC: Phasure Mach II / Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, no GPU card installed / connected directly to music server
XXHighEnd: 2.07 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=0 /  xQ1=1 / Q3,4,5=0 / SFS=1.00 / XTweaks = 43, 100, 0, 0, 1 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 1ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 16x Arc Prediction / Unattended
Main System: USB3 port -> *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3  -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System: *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a G3  -> BD-Design BD30 stereo amp -> Impulse H2 horn speakers
christoffe
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 754


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2014, 10:41:42 am »

Hi,
attached a photo of the BNC cable (everybody knows this type)
Make: Huber + Suhner – http://www.hubersuhner.com/en-CH/Home
Type: K08852 K_02232 T; item no. 521 165 - from the year 2006  (type + item no. has been changed)

EDIT: This is a high temperature coax cable with a double screen - design strand-7, colour=brown, see
http://literature.hubersuhner.com/Technologies/Radiofrequency/RFCablesEN/?page=48

The cable was assembled by Dartzeel and is quite expensive. In 2005 the price of a 5m stereo run was around € 2000,00.  It will be much cheaper to buy it in a special shop elsewhere and to assemble it on our own.

The losses within this cable are over a distance of more than 500m insignificant.

Joachim

P.S. I went to bed at 6.30AM this morning, the music was that engaging. (my wife is in London for a visit with friends)


* Huber+Suhner K08852.jpg (125.46 KB, 1000x1333 - viewed 973 times.)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 11:40:29 pm by christoffe » Logged
Scroobius
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1131


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2014, 10:53:21 am »

Hi Joachim - very interesting I read about this a couple of years ago and filed under "must try that" but forgot. Just in time to try with my new Orelino's which are due this week. As the benefit is to reduce/remove reflections in the cable then using BNC/RCA converters probably will not have much adverse impact.

Nice one!

Cheers

Paul
Logged

W10-14393.0 - RAM Disc XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2040v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores)* @~720MHz, 32GB, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = *1* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *3.0*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0/ Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter low(12220) 705600 / -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 70cm -> Phisolator -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink -> Orelino MkII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
christoffe
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 754


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2014, 11:39:45 am »


As the benefit is to reduce/remove reflections in the cable then using BNC/RCA converters probably will not have much adverse impact.


Hi Paul,

Phonosophie performed listening tests with the same type of cable (not that type I grabbed by accident), one cable with RCA connectors and then the other one with BNC + adapter, which was superior.

See the picture of the upper cable on that link.  http://www.phonosophie.de/International/everbindung3.html

The difference of  the "characteristic wave impedance"  of the cable and the RCA/BNC adapter shall be nearly identical due to possible "energy turbulences" at that connection. "So their weak explanation."

I used this same cable with the RCA/BNC adapter with a WEISS DAC a couple of years ago (preNOS1 times) and the improvement of the SQ was audible, but not that dramatic as it is now.

Joachim
Logged
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1959

www.the-unfair-advantage.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2014, 11:58:48 am »

Make: Huber + Suhner – http://www.hubersuhner.com/en-CH/Home
Type: K08852

Thanks Joachim. Well, I can't find this exact cable anywhere. But what I did find was a pair of 3.4m Huber + Suhner 50 Ohm BNC cables and some 50 Ohm BNC-RCA adaptors. I've ordered all this for about €200 - so not a lot of money to at least give them a go. If I like the result, I'll look into getting a nice pair of 10m cables so I can hopefully keep the NOS1 in my basement.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

Cheers, Mani.
Logged

Audio PC: Phasure Mach II / Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, no GPU card installed / connected directly to music server
XXHighEnd: 2.07 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=0 /  xQ1=1 / Q3,4,5=0 / SFS=1.00 / XTweaks = 43, 100, 0, 0, 1 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 1ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 16x Arc Prediction / Unattended
Main System: USB3 port -> *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3  -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System: *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a G3  -> BD-Design BD30 stereo amp -> Impulse H2 horn speakers
christoffe
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 754


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2014, 01:00:05 pm »

Make: Huber + Suhner – http://www.hubersuhner.com/en-CH/Home
Type: K08852

But what I did find was a pair of 3.4m Huber + Suhner 50 Ohm BNC cables and some 50 Ohm BNC-RCA adaptors. I've ordered all this for about €200,-

Hi Mani,

that's a very good price. (no snake oil)

Joachim


EDIT I: This is a high temperature coax cable with a double screen - design strand-7, see
http://literature.hubersuhner.com/Technologies/Radiofrequency/RFCablesEN/?page=48

Edit II: The only explanation for the big difference of the SQ is, that there are more HF emissions (mobiles, wifi etc.) around us than as we are anticipating.

EDIT III: For Arguments of the improvement of the SQ see Reply #5 from Paul too!!!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 02:25:47 pm by christoffe » Logged
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14495



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 07:18:37 pm »

Joachim,

Will you never ever put up such a thing - a thing which really makes my blood running - on a Sunday when nothing can be obtained/ordered ?

Thank you.
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - September 2017 (2.08)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *14/-/1/1/1/* Q1Factor = *1* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.9*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filter Low 705600 / -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush USB 1m00* -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1959

www.the-unfair-advantage.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 08:57:19 pm »

Will you never ever put up such a thing - a thing which really makes my blood running - on a Sunday when nothing can be obtained/ordered ?

Huh? What makes your blood boil? The suggestion to use a 50 Ohm coaxial cable with BNC/RCA adapters, or the fact that Joachim made the suggestion on a Sunday? The former I have no opinion about (until my cables arrive), but the latter makes no sense - surely the internet is open on a Sunday.

What am I missing? Some sort of Dutch joke that only our German friends would understand? Nah, can't be.

Mani.
Logged

Audio PC: Phasure Mach II / Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, no GPU card installed / connected directly to music server
XXHighEnd: 2.07 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=0 /  xQ1=1 / Q3,4,5=0 / SFS=1.00 / XTweaks = 43, 100, 0, 0, 1 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 1ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 16x Arc Prediction / Unattended
Main System: USB3 port -> *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3  -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System: *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a G3  -> BD-Design BD30 stereo amp -> Impulse H2 horn speakers
christoffe
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 754


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 09:02:24 pm »

Joachim,

Will you never ever put up such a thing - a thing which really makes my blood running - on a Sunday when nothing can be obtained/ordered ?

Thank you.
Peter


Ha, ha

as an audiophile freak I'm used to "Rock Around The Clock" seven days a week. By the way, it's Tuesday and did you order?

This cable/connector combination produces a right/left separation as heard in the beginning with W8 and the optimal listening position is the sweet spot (edit: as always) now. Prior to the installation of that cable it was possible to listen with a satisfying result in "off axis" positions.

Joachim


Logged
christoffe
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 754


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2014, 09:26:25 pm »

Will you never ever put up such a thing - a thing which really makes my blood running - on a Sunday when nothing can be obtained/ordered ?

What am I missing? Some sort of Dutch joke that only our German friends would understand? Nah, can't be.

Mani.


Thank you Mani,
but I think Peter was annoyed (frustrated) only, that he had no such cable in his garage/storage on a SUNDAY.

we Germans are "special" with jokes, and are not understanding these pretentious jokes with the fine nuances from the English people. I like their humor.

I see translated (synchronized) films of Inspector Barnaby very often, and their dialogues are for us Germans that "upper-crust". Great! good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsomer_Murders


Joachim
Logged
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1959

www.the-unfair-advantage.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2014, 09:57:27 pm »

we Germans are "special" with jokes, and are not understanding these pretentious jokes with the fine nuances from the English people. I like their humor.

I had a German friend at University who was adamant that 'The Life of Brian' was funnier dubbed ("synchronized") into German than it was in its original English. I cry with laughter whenever I watch this film in English, so it's probably just as well that I can't speak, and therefore can't watch it in, German.

Mani.
Logged

Audio PC: Phasure Mach II / Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, no GPU card installed / connected directly to music server
XXHighEnd: 2.07 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=0 /  xQ1=1 / Q3,4,5=0 / SFS=1.00 / XTweaks = 43, 100, 0, 0, 1 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 1ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 16x Arc Prediction / Unattended
Main System: USB3 port -> *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3  -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System: *Lush* -> Phisolator -> Phasure NOS1a G3  -> BD-Design BD30 stereo amp -> Impulse H2 horn speakers
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14495



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2014, 09:57:45 pm »

Quote
surely the internet is open on a Sunday.

Yes ?

Quote
(until my cables arrive),

Oh ?

See ?
I have mine.
By now.
Finally.
Logged

For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - September 2017 (2.08)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *14/-/1/1/1/* Q1Factor = *1* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.9*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filter Low 705600 / -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush USB 1m00* -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.418 seconds with 19 queries.