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Author Topic: Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ  (Read 201844 times)
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GerardA
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« Reply #165 on: September 22, 2014, 10:26:22 pm »

Hi Peter,
Maybe better RG-214?
http://www.kabel-kusch.de/Koaxkabel/RG214U/rg214u.htm

Or RG213 from here?
http://www.elektronica-shop.nl/contents/nl/d160.html
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« Reply #166 on: September 23, 2014, 01:12:31 am »

In researching these cables you need to be careful of the makeup off the live conductor.

RG 142 is copper coated steel
RG 213 is stranded copper
RG 214 is stranded silver coated copper
RG 223 is single strand silver coated copper

Radio spares UK have info on all these.

All these cables should sound different.

I can't help but be sceptical of BNC claims to date especially as an interconnect. I mean Nordost are over priced but they have developed their cables backed with research. Perhaps they need to try the BNC plug approach.

I did always run 75 ohm BNC from my CD transport to DAC for many years and it certainly was an improvement over RCA. Interestingly we did try running coax as interconnect but without the BNC plugs using RCA. These were coarse sounding compared to better quality conductor cables.

Quality of conductors is paramount in my book which definitely means steel should be avoided. Its primarily used to strengthen cables in harsh conditions and is a cheap conductor.

I am intrigued and may try the RG223. Has anyone compared 75 ohm to 50 ohm?



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« Reply #167 on: September 23, 2014, 09:25:40 am »

Me not so happy me thinks ... swoon

Robert, you must be correct with the RG142. Maybe no wonder why I couldn't find any better than the one from L-Com. But are we hoaxed ?
Below two screenshots - one of the cable (spool) itself as they sell it and one of the assembled cable. With the first we might think that there's no space for the "steel" word. But the second shows it can't be an accident. Together with the page from Brian and mine (yesterday) there's now 4 pages of them showing this.

And yes, as far as I can see RG142B/U is officially steel.
grr

PS: I showed the first screenshot as done in order to show that L-Com sure is "capable" of telling about (clad) steel.


* LCOM01.png (121.56 KB, 373x834 - viewed 517 times.)

* LCOM02.png (39.57 KB, 605x130 - viewed 481 times.)
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« Reply #168 on: September 23, 2014, 09:39:47 am »

Here is data sheet from RS

Data Sheet RS Stock No. 521-5386
Cable Coax RG142 FEP brown 25m
Cross Section:
Description:
Rated Temperature (o
C): -70 ~ 200
Rated Voltage (V):
Product Standard Certification:
Flammability Test:
Construction:
Conductor: Silver Plated Copper Clad Steel
Conductor Dia. (mm): 0.94±0.02
Insulation: PTFE
Insulation Dia. (mm): 3.0±0.1
Braid Shield 1: Silver Plated Copper
Conductor Dia. (mm): 0.12
Conductor Qty: 16x7
Coverage: >90%
Braid Shield 2: Silver Plated Copper
Conductor Dia. (mm): 0.12
Conductor Qty: 16x7
Pitch(mm):
Coverage: >88%
Jacket: FEP
Outer Dia. (mm): 5.0±0.15
Colour:
The color of the insulation: Nature
The jacket color: Brown
Marking(3times/m):
RS 5215386 Cable Coax RG142 FEP brown
Performance:
Electrical Characteristics:
Frequency Attenuation(dB/100M)
700MHz 35.1
900MHz 40.4
1000MHz 43.0
2000MHz 63.3
 
Specified value (max.) is not more than 108% of the nominal
value
Character Impedance: 50 ohm
Capacitance: 95.1pF/M
Velocity ratio(%) : 70%

Check this page:  http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/coaxial-cable/5215386/
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« Reply #169 on: September 23, 2014, 09:41:49 am »

What is interesting is you don't get these specs on so called HiFi cables but we pay silly money for them based on our ears!!!!!
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« Reply #170 on: September 23, 2014, 09:57:52 am »

A quick post as I'm in the middle of running a workshop for a client...

I currently have some el cheapo BNC cables. I should receive some raw H+S K_02252_D cable (RG142) sometime next week, so will have to buy some BNC connectors and stick them on before using (not sure when I'll get around to doing this). BUT... I've also ordered some pre-assembled H+S K_03252_D BNC cables (RG223) which should arrive in a couple of weeks' time.

Will report findings when everything's in place.

Mani.
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« Reply #171 on: September 23, 2014, 10:14:22 am »

What is interesting is you don't get these specs on so called HiFi cables but we pay silly money for them based on our ears!!!!!

And this is suddenly the fun for me because it's full of specs. So for example - and we must LOOK at that ! - the coverage of the shield. This is NOT part of the "RG" spec (as fas ar I know) while for shure this matters for the shielding (like the >90% and >88% of the RS example).

Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach *III* Stealth LPS PC -> *Xeon Scalable 14/28 core* with Hyperthreading On (*set to 10/20 cores*) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *140.19*  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *35* / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush^2 A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-W* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #172 on: September 23, 2014, 10:27:09 am »

Something else we could learn, and what I told about in beteen some lines some day somewhere - about over-rating :

If you dive into this, you will see that the e.g. 50 Ohm spec is not equal for all frequencies. That this is "50 Ohm" is not important (can be 75, can be 93, 110 etc.) but that it varies the east is. Now undoubtedly the higher the speed rating of the cable (like the 2GHz etc.) the less variance there will be in the audio band. Problem always is : the proper interpretation because once you're into the "over-rating" the specs won't show what we really want to know (audio band). So for many of such things it needs endless reading and comparing so in the end you can draw conclusions from other properties.

And like I said/implied earlier in the topic : it can get really difficult once you focus on high rate cables (like for video or communications) while you will be able to tell in advance that something like the adapter will never be able to do that, because the (RCA) adapter will never have been made for such application (but think video and you still have a chance). And really, letting run the high frequencies (which always will be there - think many MHz) into something which blocks it (the adaptor) will imply reflections again.

So keep in mind, never mind many of us will have many hours of "investigating" behind us by now, it is STILL only a start.

Peter
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Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #173 on: September 23, 2014, 10:35:15 am »

Has anyone compared 75 ohm to 50 ohm?

I tried to find something yesterday for randomly 50 and 75 Ohm, but ended up (falsely ?) at the RG142. So relative to that I rejected all the 75 Ohm and it now looks like a lost 5 hours yesterday (if that RG142 is no copper at all).
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XXHighEnd Mach *III* Stealth LPS PC -> *Xeon Scalable 14/28 core* with Hyperthreading On (*set to 10/20 cores*) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *140.19*  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *35* / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush^2 A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-W* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #174 on: September 23, 2014, 10:45:22 am »

This cable (double shielded) is Roberts proposal and it seems to be the best choice.

http://www.l-com.com/coaxial-rg223-coaxial-cable-bnc-male-male-50-ft

Joachim

* RG223-U.pdf (472.72 KB - downloaded 295 times.)
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« Reply #175 on: September 23, 2014, 01:31:44 pm »

Well if the L-Com RG 142 is steel then steel sounds better than you would think! Very weird that they list steel as a center conductor component in many of their cables but not the 142. I'm giving them a call today. I'm also going to order some RG 223.
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« Reply #176 on: September 23, 2014, 01:57:34 pm »

Well if the L-Com RG 142 is steel then steel sounds better than you would think! Very weird that they list steel as a center conductor component in many of their cables but not the 142. I'm giving them a call today. I'm also going to order some RG 223.

Hi Brian,

I do use an identical type cable to the RG142 with copper coated steel strands and the SQ is great. Let's see (hear) what the RG223 is emerging.

Joachim
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« Reply #177 on: September 23, 2014, 02:12:13 pm »

Well if the L-Com RG 142 is steel then steel sounds better than you would think! Very weird that they list steel as a center conductor component in many of their cables but not the 142. I'm giving them a call today. I'm also going to order some RG 223.

Haha, I wanted to replace my order from yesterday with the RG223. But the order was shipped already. So I just sent them an email with a "what's up ?" and the clear suggestion that they send a couple of RG223 for free. So of course they are going to do that, or they will tell that it's copper in there indeed.
If you call them, let them look in their email and tell them that you're not the only one. Or wait a bit until I receive a reply.



Good morning there,
 
Yesterday I put in the order of which you see the details below. But now I have a question :
 
The RG142 cables I ordered, where explicitly ordered because in various datasheets L-Com "claims" that the core is Cu. Please see attached for two examples of that. However, RG142 officially is steel, plated with copper. So can you tell me please, did I order for cables which won't suit my need, or does L-Com make cables which don't meet the official RG142 spec ? The latter is fine with me; the former I wouldn't be too happy about.
N.b.: By now I would have replaced the RG142 by the RG223 (this is officially Cu for the core) hence your item numbers CC223B-10 (x2) and CC223B-15 (x2) but I see the order has been shipped already.
 
?
 
Best regards from Holland,
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« Reply #178 on: September 23, 2014, 02:29:52 pm »



Good morning there,
 
Yesterday I put in the order of which you see the details below. But now I have a question :
 
The RG142 cables I ordered, where explicitly ordered because in various datasheets L-Com "claims" that the core is Cu. Please see attached for two examples of that. However, RG142 officially is steel, plated with copper. So can you tell me please, did I order for cables which won't suit my need, or does L-Com make cables which don't meet the official RG142 spec ? The latter is fine with me; the former I wouldn't be too happy about.
N.b.: By now I would have replaced the RG142 by the RG223 (this is officially Cu for the core) hence your item numbers CC223B-10 (x2) and CC223B-15 (x2) but I see the order has been shipped already.
 
?
 
Best regards from Holland,


Hi Peter,

shipping costs are? 25$ ?

Joachim
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« Reply #179 on: September 23, 2014, 02:40:06 pm »

Before i call, lets wait till the end of the day and see if they reply to you. Thanks for beating me to the punch!
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