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Author Topic: Req: any USB cable tips?  (Read 75575 times)
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CoenP
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« on: October 13, 2014, 10:42:54 am »

Hi,

My standard USB cable is kind of broken. No matter how I connect it, after 10 minutes or so all error counters go bazerk. Sound collapses into static. Probably some buffer overflow.

No such thing with my cheapo 5 meter USB but unfortunately this cable has no Mojo. Differences between cables and such have become MAJOR since the NOS1a. Tried a more expensive one (35 euros) but the sound became awful.

Any recommendations for a 1.5-2m USB cable that suits the NOS1a?

Thanks,

Regards, Coen
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2014, 11:48:05 am »

Ah, good luck Coen. I began my own quest to find the 'USB cable holy grail' immediately after receiving my (first) upgraded NOS1a and noticing that USB cables now made a massive difference. But in the end, I was defeated - just way too difficult with so many other variables (such as new speakers, etc). In the end, I opted to stick with my 'expensive' USB cable, which I stupidly paid a lot of money for (more than the NOS1a upgrade!).

If I were in your position, I'd probably try the iFi Mercury cable. I won't cost the earth, and seems (purely from pics and reports online) as if it's well put together.

Mani.
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2014, 12:32:26 pm »

Hi,

somebody recommended this cable in the forum.

It has a great sound.

Joachim

http://www.yourfinalsystem.com/component/virtuemart/cables/audiophile-usb-cables/usb-reference-audiophile-usb-2-0-cable/highend-audiophile-usb-reference-cable-1-0m-dataonly-17-21-25-28-detail?Itemid=0
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2014, 01:15:33 pm »

Hi Joachim,

Are your sure that a USB cable without power will work between the PC and the NOS1(a) ?

2 years ago I had an Sotm USB 3 PCIe card that has a switch to allow sending the 5V power in the USB cable or not.

To establish the connection it was necessary first to allow the power to flow between the PC and the NOS1, then (and only then) as soon as the 2 components connected, I could switch OFF the USB power...

I would test with an ordinary USB cable (on which the power is "masked" with a thin layer of isolation tape or plastic) first just to be on the safe side...

It seems that some dacs do not require this, but the NOS1 seem to use it at least for the connection time... (Peter ?)

Alain


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Stanray
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2014, 01:39:09 pm »

Hi Coen,

I was planning to buy this one: https://www.kabeltje.com/supra-usb-a-b-kabel-2-meter.

Real (?) 90 ohm, because that might be the most important.

Stanley
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2014, 02:50:48 pm »

Hi Joachim,

Are your sure that a USB cable without power will work between the PC and the NOS1(a) ?

2 years ago I had an Sotm USB 3 PCIe card that has a switch to allow sending the 5V power in the USB cable or not.

To establish the connection it was necessary first to allow the power to flow between the PC and the NOS1, then (and only then) as soon as the 2 components connected, I could switch OFF the USB power...

I would test with an ordinary USB cable (on which the power is "masked" with a thin layer of isolation tape or plastic) first just to be on the safe side...

It seems that some dacs do not require this, but the NOS1 seem to use it at least for the connection time... (Peter ?)

Alain

Hi Alain,

somewhere Peter wrote no USB power connection between the PC and NOS1 is needed. I will look for his remark.

I bought this cable (I think Juan recommended it) at NOS1 times and there was a benefit to hear. There aren't any problems with this cable for the NOS1 and NOS1a in my system.

Joachim
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AlainGr
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2014, 02:58:35 pm »

Maybe what I experienced has to do with the Sotm USB card itself ? I can't really say, since then I have removed it and now use the Silverstone PCIe card...

Alain
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2014, 06:37:15 pm »

The SOtM won't work without power. Don't ask me why. Otherwise the power is not needed for the NOS1(a).

Peter
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A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2014, 06:41:53 pm »

I was planning to buy this one: https://www.kabeltje.com/supra-usb-a-b-kabel-2-meter.

Real (?) 90 ohm, because that might be the most important.

At last it "has it" in the specs : http://www.jenving.com/products/view/usb-2.0-a-b-blue-1m-1001907573
... and this is rare to begin with. But since this cable is often reviewed well ... looks good ?
The ones I found myself with explicit 90 Ohm spec (and then still wth +/-15% because that *is* the USB spec) can be counted on one finger and then still have to be made yourself (with the connectors).

So good ? And for 45 euros ... a no-brainer I suppose.

Stanley, nice find !
Peter
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W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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AlainGr
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 08:05:07 pm »

The SOtM won't work without power. Don't ask me why. Otherwise the power is not needed for the NOS1(a).

Peter
Hi Peter,

The sotm card needs power of course... I was talking about the switch that "cuts" the 5V that otherwise would be sent through the USB cable...

Here is how they tell it...

SOtm tX-USBexp Features
USB port
USB 3.0 compliant xHCI host controller
PCI express x1 Gen2 interface
Support for super-speed, high-speed, full-speed, and low-speed
USB port power on/off function
Over current protection
ESD protection


Alain
Edit: thinking about it again... I may not have understood your point - you mean that the Sotm will not work if power is not applied first at the USB port ?
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2014, 09:11:23 am »

Quote
Edit: thinking about it again... I may not have understood your point - you mean that the Sotm will not work if power is not applied first at the USB port ?

Alain, exactly. I too wasn't the most clear, but logically there was nothing in my mind about the power to the card itself. So there's a dipswitch on it for USB power, and without that set to On the NOS1 will not work. Again, no clue why but the card will be not compliant somewhere. And not to forget, the card's latency is also not on par, so something is fishy in there. Do notice though that this experience is from when it was first out (over 3 years ago by now ?).

Regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2014, 05:49:52 pm »

@all,

Thank for the tips! The tech specs of the supra cable looked sound to me so I ordered a 1m length that will arrive in the coming weeks.

I'm rather discouraged by the audibility of the USB cable since it will be another variable in the audio chain making it more difficult to optimize with the aid of others (that have different setups). Hopefully the nice specs will translate into superior sound.

I will also put some more effort in eliminating noise at the computer side. This may provide insight into to the vast differences in sound between usb cables (despite the undoubtedly excellent noise suppression in the NOS1a).
Groundloops aside, I can envision reducing amplitude modulation of the carrier signal bij stabilizing the DC power and frequency modulation by enhancing the clock, which in itself is also for a large part a power supply stability solution. I hope that I catch noise on the USB powerline by these better supplies or maybe even disconnecting it at the USB3 card side.
The design of the SUPRA cable may help here also.

regards, Coen
 
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Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 12:23:54 pm »


If you want an exceptionally black back round, without high frequency grunge at very loud levels, you really ought to consider the data only cable Joachim posted about. You may initially feel that the sound is a bit soft compared to your out of the box USB printer cable but don't let that fool you. Turn it up, you'll be amazed.  Happy
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 03:14:23 pm »

I´m using a Mapleshade USB 2.0 cable with the NOS1a as I did with the NOS1 and the results are great. Listening The Moody Blues "Nights in white satin" I can perceive much more ambient with this cable than with others, music and voice seems to be in a big space with perspective and a lot of air around rather than being a flat sound in a constrained place. This is an old recording but the ambient can be perceived, or not, easily with one cable or another.

Another option I would not discard is Peter´s standard cable, I mean the one that comes with the NOS1. This is a very cheap and common cable but for some reason I find it a very good one, very close to the Mapleshade cable although perhaps a bit smoother (which could be better in some cases).

Mapleshade Clearlink Plus: http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CLEARLINK3-B-PL

Regards,
Juan
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Audio Pc: Processor i7 970: 3200MHz (reduced to 1668MHz), 6+6 cores/ RAM Corsair DDR3, 24Gb, 1333MHz/ Mb Asus X58 Sabertooth/ OS and XXHE in Peter's RAM-Disk / The CPU fan is the only one in the Audio Pc: NF-S12A (600rpm/6.7db)/ No graphic card/ Power supply: Seasonic SS-400FL2, fanless.

Configuration and Updates in HOW I'VE BUILT MY NEW PC...http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1673.0. This post is very old but maybe someone still find it useful

XXHighEnd: 2.11a. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN/ KS:Phasure NOS1 Out 4.0/ #4 Engine/ Adaptive Mode/ Q1=10, Q3,4,5=1, xQ1=15/ Dev.Buffer: 4096/ ClockRes: 15ms/ Straight Contiguous/ SFS: 0.69 (max 0,69)/ Not Invert/ Phase Alignment Off/ Allow format change/ Decode HDCD/ Playerprio: Low/ ThreadPrio: Real Time/ Scheme: Core 3-5/ UnAttended/ Not Switch during Playback Off/ Playback Drive none/ UnAttended/ Include Garbage Collect/ Copy to XX Drive by standard/ Always clear Proxy before Playback/ Stop Desktop Services/ Stop Remaining Services/ Stop All Services: Off/ Keep LAN Services: On - Persist: Off/ Use Remote Desktop/ Minimize OS/ XTweaks : Balanced Load 35/ Nervous Rate 10/ Cool when Idle -/ Provide Stable Power 0/ Utilize Cores always 1/ Time Performance Index: Optimal / Time Stability: Stable / Arc Prediction/ Number of cores in use: 12 (máx. 6-12)

Music Server PC (W10) totally silent with OS (W10) in SSD and music inside in SSDs - RDC > Ethernet Gigabyte cable 3m > Audio Pc > 1m USB Lush cable directly from the USB3.0 in the motherboard > PHASURE NOS1a-75B-G3 (Driver v1.0.4) 16ms > Blaxius BNC interconnects > Genelec 1037B 3-Way Active speakers with BNC inputs
vrao
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 04:06:28 pm »

So USB cables is kind of uncharted territory for me ...

The only other USB cable I have is the
http://www.neo-w.com/english/d_usb-2.html
The "S" cable ..... Which I briefly experimented without much success, though it was well regarded in places like audio exotics.

I followed Mani's recommendation on iFi, and found their top of the line
USB http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier/
setup with the power dual cable and purifier
However having 4 components for USB did not make sense to me

Then I read up on the total dac USB cable
http://www.totaldac.com/USB_cable-eng.html

Now Joachim's/Boleary's recommendation seems most simple.
So .... Is there any issues with the DAC and server sync ? Any downsides otherwise for a data only cable?

Thanks in advance
VJ
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