My first Windows 10 experience

[PeterSt]

Ya ya ... My first Windows 8 experience. Seems like yesterday, but is 29 months ago by now.
What did I say in there for the first line ?

First to the conclusion : I don't know.

3rd line ?

Degree of happiness : Low.

But we got there in the end ...

... And with Windows 10 we are there from the start.



It took me 8 hours before the first sound was singing. This included the install of the W10 OS itself, the first trials of XXHighEnd and see how the OS is actually named internally so the software could be adjusted to recognition and now officially install. 6 hours from the start I was as far as booting into MinOS before even listening to it in Normal OS but all went black and stayed that. Wonder oh wonder I could revert to a before made Restore Point (with the help of the install DVD) and in the end all was fine again.

What was not 100% fine was the at first failing install of XXHighEnd halfway which brought me some very interesting "noises" because of even more interesting settings I wasn't aware of (at first). Also the NOS1a Driver installed with 16ms of buffer size (is that always so ?) and that did not work well (scratching sound). After setting that to 4ms all seemed OK but what a "strange" sound. Was this normal ??
Then I found Q1 to be at 0 (this is not really 0 as such and Q1 can even be set at -4) and lastly the Device Buffer Size to be 1024. That all together brought a ... well, interesting sound (I am actually very serious). But I thought it couldn't be a good thing, and so I set all to "normal".

This was day before yesterday and the 2.5 hours of listening brought me some getting used to. I liked it, but maybe there wasn't 100% consensus about that with the family. Also it was a bit of randomly playing a couple of things, more focused on "does it work" and "what all works" than the SQ.
Anyway this ended up in Unattended Playback in Normal OS and with only Desktop Services shut off (the remainder wouldn't work yet).

Then came yesterday.
Of course my W10 was broken in now for a day (haha) and all what could have changed things was that somewhere during the day the PC was accessed directly (instead of via the remote) which must have changed some internal setting and which made it hibernate/sleep (otherwise it didn't fall asleep although I never set any setting for that (falling asleep would be the default)). So, this should incur for a typical situation that I rebooted it, knowing what all awkwardness can spring from using PC's which had been sleeping and now continue for audio playback (since Vista that is). But I didn't and even after noticing that no USB DAC was connected any more - which one minute later was after all (after me bringing up the NOS1 Control Panel ?) ... I started playback (ignorantly).

What I now noticed more than the day before is that there's something in the highs of which I wonder whether it belongs there. Something like too prominent "belling" which could well be distortion. But was it really ? I couldn't detect it hence decide and instead put up another album of which I could expect the highs to excel if highs are for the better anyway.
And from there I have no memory ...

It was going through my mind that nobody needs a new DAC or NOS2 for that matter. They just need this !
... what a freakin' experience.

I can explain all with one strange expression only :

Don't play anything with human voices, or you'll get mad.

I have been talking more often about the crying babies in music and that they appear to be real babies in the room. And how the better the music reproduction becomes, the more of those voices start to be real and you look up who is saying something (which thus is nobody). And now ?
Now this happened 10 times per minute for each minute. Unbearable !

Although it was very difficult to concentrate on aspects, I tried to hear what actually was so much better. I believe the bass is for sure; There's unheard definition in it. The highs are totally different (and I mean totally) and although I can't describe it, I think I can firmly say that it is the opposite of the famous Windows 8 Robots highs. Not that I ever declared that Robots playing the music spring from wrong highs, but I think that is quite obvious (too square at the micro level or something). There's singing all over; it's like the one sample now knows how to control the next sample. How the both are to be connected (this is stupid talk of course but I'm looking for a metaphor which accomplishes what I hear).


What could be the most interesting is what I talked about in the beginning : what I experienced when I had my settings wrong. So outside the scratching I could super clearly hear a level going up and down and this was in a fashion which should be impossible with digital. So all my buffers were way too low (like Device Buffer at 1024 *and* Q1 at 0) and why do I have in my mind that the NOS1(a) doesn't even play with those low buffers. But it now did anyway and the sound was too interesting to think it is normal. Still it has to be technically normal because as said, digital anomalies are not able to produce what I heard. But what did I hear then ? a super detailed flanger in voices etc. ? This reminds me of me ever back saying that I could suddenly hear how Neil Young is not at a fixed distance from the microphone and that he always moves backwards and forwards. So the level of his voice gets softer and louder (flanger). It was this what I heard throughout at these first 10 minutes or so before I found out about the wrong settings and I didn't hear that back after the settings were "correct". Still I was reminded of it by my writing of the last sentence above the horizontal line (above). So it must be so that something of it is still in there and it is about how "samples connect".



Maybe all is wrong. And well, in that case I still had the best hours of playback of my life, yesterday. Amazing.


Windows 10 itself is quite a pile of sh*t. MS is saying that upcoming July 29 it will be available to the public. Well, if that really happens we are guaranteed to have an all buggy OS; To me it seems completely impossible that all what's in there for bugs at this moment is going to be solved in these few weeks left.
But do I care ?

This is a dangerous question. No, I don't care if I can stick to what I have at this moment. But I can already see that what others have at this moment is WORSE and I would not be able to live with that. So now my advice is this :

Go to the download page right now and download the version I have which hopefully is still the same (build 10074) :
http://windows.microsoft.com/nl-nl/windows/preview-iso
This is a Dutch page, but scroll down to the "Downloadkoppelingen" you see close to half way and choose the first one : Engels (Verenigde Staten)
N.b.: This Dutch page is the only one I could find that avoids registration and stuff).

Download it (64 bit version), and use the "Windows 7 Download tool" to make a bootable ISO DVD of it (don't attempt the USB stick unless you know you have one of which you know Windows will be able to boot from it).
Install this on a new hdd hence do not make a dual boot etc. and most certainly do not upgrade from an existing OS.

Really, do this as soon as possible; today they are at version 10130 and I heard rumour that they want to make that the version to download (from there). But it s*cks.
Do not connect your PC to the internet or otherwise cause the automatic updates to be shut off *first*.

By the time you have it running, XXHighEnd will be able to deal with it in public version. I'm eager.

Peter

[acg]

Interesting Peter.  Not that I have any playback at the moment but I am downloading the ISO just to have it.

[Gerard]

On that same page Peter they say this,

Windows Update zal alle belangrijke updates automatisch installeren zodra deze beschikbaar zijn. In Windows 10 Insider Preview kun je automatisch bijwerken niet uitschakelen.

[PeterSt]

Haha

Ok Gerard, thank you. Maybe it is an idea to translate this somewhat :

With the Insider Preview automatic updates can not be shut off.

That means that we shouldn't connect to the internet.

Btw, because I ran into that anyway : With the later Home edition, Updates can not be shut off as well.

And something else (or not) : For the Surface tablet I have, the updates also could not be shut off. Still I managed via some deep-hidden "feature" (which in the end will be Windows-general I'd say). So maybe I must look up how I did that ...

Peter

[JohanZ]

With the Insider Preview automatic updates can not be shut off.

See: https://4sysops.com/archives/turn-off-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-build-9926/

Disabling the Windows Update service: "....... another option to turn off Automatic Updates altogether. All we need to do is stop the Windows Update service and make sure that it won’t start again. I recommend to first check if updates are currently downloaded; if so, wait until all updates are installed. Then, type “services” in the Windows 10 search box and click View Local Services."

Johan

[PeterSt]

if so, wait until all updates are installed.

[Jud]

My feeling, and this is nothing more than instinct, is that 10 may be my favorite since 7.  (Before that I liked 2000; before that, perhaps NT, perhaps not.)

I have 10130; talk is that 10134 will come this week and from there it is all supposed to be bug fixing.

[michaeljeger]

I will try that eventually on a different SSD

However, I was only able to grab 10134, which is now the current version.

Regards Michael

[christoffe]

I will try that eventually on a different SSD

However, I was only able to grab 10134, which is now the current version.

Regards Michael

a link to the build 10074 at 11pm this night

http://windows.microsoft.com/de-de/windows/preview-iso

Joachim

[PeterSt]

Thank you Joachim.

[PeterSt]

Btw, I see people ask or try whether 2.01 runs on W10. It does not. There is no need to try ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

However, I was only able to grab 10134, which is now the current version.

Hi Michael,

Are you sure about this 10134 ?
Not that I don't trust you, but I see nothing of this build anywhere. Is this what you downloaded from the page I gave ? or is this what you received through an upgrade ?

Thanks ...
Peter

[PeterSt]

But guys ... super serious remark is :

If you can't get this 10074 build, forget it. It is difficult enough already, but I *can* work with 10074 (so far). I think I already said it : the current 10130 will be completely unusable. But always keep in mind : I am not using that.

I'll give an example :

In the 10074 I am using, no start button will work any more after playing Unattended. No click, no right click. Still all is manageable because I know (or make it so) that you don't need anything else. And for the one time you do, just reboot.
It is only a small example out of uncountable but key is that it works and plays and plays for hours.

Example of 10130 : You can't even login over RDP (I think with some hassle, yes, but not even sure).
So you see, the newer builds are WORSE. This is also the reason why 10074 is still the one for initial download (it is of the so-called "slow ring" ... the "fast ring" is about the weekly or faster updates you automatically receive and which may be better or worse - just to find out).

So seriously, if you now have something else than 10074, just ditch it (that is, if you're heading for XXHighEnd usage ... hopefully this week).

Peter

[Jud]

However, I was only able to grab 10134, which is now the current version.

Hi Michael,

Are you sure about this 10134 ?
Not that I don't trust you, but I see nothing of this build anywhere. Is this what you downloaded from the page I gave ? or is this what you received through an upgrade ?

Thanks ...
Peter

As of last night, on the "fast" Windows Update setting, latest was 10130.  I don't think the more recent builds are available as isos.

But if Michael is correct, then throw everything I just said out the window.  Or he is able to download the most recent/unstable developer builds, which I cannot.

[christoffe]

However, I was only able to grab 10134, which is now the current version.

Hi Michael,

Are you sure about this 10134 ?
Not that I don't trust you, but I see nothing of this build anywhere. Is this what you downloaded from the page I gave ? or is this what you received through an upgrade ?

Thanks ...
Peter

As of last night, on the "fast" Windows Update setting, latest was 10130.  I don't think the more recent builds are available as isos.

But if Michael is correct, then throw everything I just said out the window.  Or he is able to download the most recent/unstable developer builds, which I cannot.

Hi Jud,

I just check it. When you are going to the link mentioned under reply#8, and go to Englisch, you still get.

Joachim

[Jud]

Hi Jud,

I just check it. When you are going to the link mentioned under reply#8, and go to Englisch, you still get.

Joachim

Hi Joachim - right, 10074 is the last build that is available as an iso.  As Peter says, don't connect to the Internet after you've installed the iso, because if you do, Win 10 build updates will occur automatically whether you want them or not.

For myself, contrary to my usual eagerness to try anything new, I think perhaps I will wait.  Though I do indeed anticipate running XXHE on Win 10, there is no reason for Peter to chase a changing target.  So I assume the next build Peter will work with after 10074 will be the official public release.  Time enough to install XXHE once that happens.  (Of course if I am wrong and there is an XXHE 2.x that works with whatever Win10 build I have at the time, I will likely install it.)

[PeterSt]

So I assume the next build Peter will work with after 10074 will be the official public release.

This is not really what I have in mind (at this moment); What I am afraid of is that the RTM version will be so much different that the SQ will be vanished. Of course I can't tell yet, but I see better value in explicitly NOT anticipating a next version.
Maybe people don't have experience much with W8.1 or the difference with 8.0, but for me there's no single way that W8.1 will ever play in my system - that bad. And so this is what we can be afraid of.

How long we can preserve (keep on running) such a Preview build, I don't know. Maybe forever, maybe till the end of the year, etc.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Here's a super crucial matter :

At least for me it is very important that I can revert to Restore Points (had to make use of that 6 times or so by now).

Windows Defender has to be shut off or otherwise XXHighEnd won't play (Unattendedly).

A Restore Point made under the situation that Windows Defender has been Shut Off, will NOT lead to a restorable situation. Hence the Restore will fail.

So we MUST make Restore Points, but they must be taken with Windows Defender being active.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Small update on the progress made :

Yesterday I was finally able to boot into Minimized OS without being left with a black screen with mouse pointer only. This, after taking the rough route of approach and which means that way too many Services are now running in order to let it (finally) work. So now it is a matter of tearing down the lot and see where it fails. This can take a few hours, but also a few days.

And each time it fails all I can do is revert to a Restore Point, which together with the required slow boot from DVD takes 30 minutes or so alone.

Anyway I played with it a whole evening as it is and to that regard we have a version right now. But of course I first like to optimize it ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

Hi,

I found the links below which possibly will remain to be available even if another ISO base version comes around :

For 64 bits : http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=522144

For 32 bits : http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=522145

Both are English-US versions.

Peter

[BertD]

Both are English-US versions.

Zit daar ook een Product Key bij of heb je die niet nodig?

[PeterSt]

Good one !

It will be this Key :

6P99N-YF42M-TPGBG-9VMJP-YKHCF

But you won't be needing it that I can see. Maybe if you connect to the Internet ...

Peter

[Gerard]

How to obtain a new XX code if connecting to the internet is not possible?

As soon if you have XX ready for W10 i give it a try.

 

[PeterSt]

Another good one ...

[BertD]

6P99N-YF42M-TPGBG-9VMJP-YKHCF

That's the same as the NL version and probably all different language versions as well...

[PeterSt]

How to obtain a new XX code if connecting to the internet is not possible?

As soon if you have XX ready for W10 i give it a try.

 

Gerard, actually it is too difficult thinking. It is simply like this :

1. Everybody has obtained an Activation Code, so how ?
2. Currently you are hooked up to the Internet or not (during Playback). Just continue that as how it was;
3. Nobody has his Windows Updates switched on. And if you do ... it's not a wise thing to do to begin with.

So nothing needs to change anywhere.

Regards,
Peter

[Gerard]

How to obtain a new XX code if connecting to the internet is not possible?

As soon if you have XX ready for W10 i give it a try.

 

Gerard, actually it is too difficult thinking. It is simply like this :

1. Everybody has obtained an Activation Code, so how ?
2. Currently you are hooked up to the Internet or not (during Playback). Just continue that as how it was;
3. Nobody has his Windows Updates switched on. And if you do ... it's not a wise thing to do to begin with.

So nothing needs to change anywhere.

Regards,
Peter

I mean with this 10074 W10 (And where auto update cant be switched off) 

[PeterSt]

And where auto update cant be switched off

Ah, shoot. It was about that, yes.

Ok, then I need to figure out how to kill that update stuff (which people need to apply themselves, if they want).

Thank you Greard,
Peter

[Jud]

This is not really what I have in mind (at this moment); What I am afraid of is that the RTM version will be so much different that the SQ will be vanished. Of course I can't tell yet, but I see better value in explicitly NOT anticipating a next version.
Maybe people don't have experience much with W8.1 or the difference with 8.0, but for me there's no single way that W8.1 will ever play in my system - that bad. And so this is what we can be afraid of.

How long we can preserve (keep on running) such a Preview build, I don't know. Maybe forever, maybe till the end of the year, etc.

Peter

I seem to remember several months with previous versions, or maybe until the public release.  Perhaps it will be different with this one, since it's a free upgrade.

[PeterSt]

Sorry for the size (width) ...

Minimized OS is done. Now have a listen again ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

ohhh f*ck

[Gerard]

ohhh f*ck

Good? 

[PeterSt]

[PeterSt]

So RightClick on the Stop button now shows a third option in W10. This can be

- Stop W10 Updates
- Allow W10 Updates
- Allow W10 Updates n/a (state is MinOS)

The Stop will permenently disable the Updates (persistent at Reboots) and the Allow will allow them (also persistently).
What shows in the screen shot is the situation that we're in Minimized OS Mode and that the change of state is not possible, with the notice that in MinOS the Updates are off always anyway.

Peter

[PeterSt]

ohhh f*ck

Good? 

What actually happened yesterday was this :

Right after announcing the "now listen" I started playback;

The quite random few tracks I put in the Playlist Area started with one which after 10 second made me startle because of the sudden blast after 10 seconds or so, I actually never heard in that track.

Parallel to playback I was firing up the BBQ so I was going in and out a couple of times. The first time I came in again I heard breaking glass. Looked around a bit, but it appeared to be coming from the speakers. Ok.
Next time I came in, a track of another album was playing and the first thing I heard was ... breaking glass. So WTF was doing this or what was now suddenly so "breaking".
But while tinkering about this our son suddenly looked around with his eyes on the glass door we have in the room. No, this doesn't really sound like breaking glass, but when closing it you sure hear that it's a glass door and not a wooden one which would be more normal. That door was open from me being through there a minute back. His message : "why did you leave open the door ?" but he was totally confused meanwhile because I was at 5 meters distance from the door and he expected me to just have closed (or opened) it.
The moral is clear - he too heard a glass sound (with headphones (always) on and through Game music).

Not that everything now sounds as glass. But there's a super snap that easily makes music exhibit this kind of sound, a bit depending on what's used for percussion. But think of it : did we never see a row of empty (or half filled) bottles (or the like) for percussion ? Yes, thinking of it, I sure did. But did I ever hear that really through the speakers that I noticed ? possibly not. And now that's even quite profound.

So something really really changed ...

And on another note ... that bass ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

6P99N-YF42M-TPGBG-9VMJP-YKHCF

That's the same as the NL version and probably all different language versions as well...

Bert, maybe. But I just tried it for fun (or to prepare you guys) and it does not even work ...

So notice that (as usual) after two days a screen starts to pop up (and overlays all) that encourages you to Activate. On that screen there's a button "Go to PC Settings" (implying that you will be able to enter the Key in there). Usually (for W8.1 the situation is the same) you go there (you can't go anywhere else anyway) to next select the Windows Desktop (which you can do from in there). I don't know how long that lasts (without entering the Key) ... Here though (Windows 10) this happens :

ZILCH

So you can click that button, but next you return to the Desktop. Super ? maybe. But of it doesn't last forever then we'll have to see what's next. The "grace period" as how it is called, will be 30 days for these kind of Windows versions (not Server I mean). Anyway I now tried it with this but the result you see above.

Peter

[Gerard]

Go to the download page right now and download the version I have which hopefully is still the same (build 10074) :

10130 it is  but i have it though 

[Michel]

Hello all
 

http://getintopc.com/softwares/operating-systems/windows-10-build-10074-iso-32-64-bit-free-download/

Its a very slow...download site..

Kind Regards,
Michel

[PeterSt]

Thank you Michel.
Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

I have only one expression about the sound at this moment :

Onbeschoft.

But this is Dutch and I wouldn't be able to translate that to English because one would need to be in audio circles to find a similar expression. But if I had to translate it myself it would be "indecent".
Doesn't make much sense eh ? So make it "unheard". But now it's a softy so not the right one. The "onbeschoft" again resembles some badass (bass) youngster on the roof of a building.

W10 must be badass good.

Now it is up to you ...

Peter

[Scroobius]

I installed build 10074 (on a clean formatted disc) and it seems to be working OK. When I install XX 1.186a it starts by installing .net 3.5 and that installs OK but after it has installed when I try to run XX it just gives an error message "XXHighEnd has stopped working".

That's as far as I can get - any ideas would be welcome.

Cheers

Paul

[PeterSt]

What about reading, Paul ?
1.186-a can't work.

But give it 4 minutes, then 2.02 is up.

Peter

[PeterSt]

It seems the 4 minutes have passed :
XXHighEnd Model 2.02 - Official Windows 10 Support.

Now I hope everybody has some fun with it !!

Regards,
Peter