SQ of W10 build 10586

[christoffe]

Hi,

great disappointment. Voices are one of the most difficult sources for a replay.
Played tracks from David Crosby, Al Jarreau, Caroline Anderson.
The voices are flat, no volume and much less timbre, no room filling sound.
Had to go back to 10240, and the house rocks again.

Joachim

[PeterSt]

Hi Joachim,

I refrained from making comments about 10240 (because you would jump in with false "counter alarms") but :

over here :

10240 sounds like a drag and is unlistenable;
10565 is very close to 10074 and I'd say better.
10586 I don't know yet.

But you see ... you are working in a for us "illegal" situation. Your remarks about SQ are totally useless to us all (even to yourself, actually).

I already had to close a topic because you kept on "going" ... please let this one be and recognize that what you do is strange, but IF you do it anyway, now you should refrain from any comments.

Deal ?

I most certainly do not want to shut you up, but we can not utilize/exploit the comments. We need 2.03 first and "our MinOS".


Best regards and in itself highly appreciated that you share !
Peter

[PeterSt]

Another thing is that I most cincerely hope that you are wrong for the normal situation (with XXHE 2.03). But of course you can turn up to be correct.
Actually maybe I am afraid you are ...

But hey, if so, 10565 is doing quite well (also for usability of the OS itself in contrary to 10240). And as we know by now, in the end nothing expires on Sept 2, 2015.

ha

[doublelife]

Hi All,

I'm new here but you'll be hearing more from me when I finally get my NOS1a ordered, delivered and burnt in....

In the meantime, can anybody post a reliable download link for ISO of 10565?

Thanks,
Paul

[PeterSt]

Hey there Paul ! (and welcome)

Why 10565 ?

Look in this post for the latest (10586) :
Re: W10 Version 1511 (Build 10586.3) installed.

10565 I don't know any more but if really needed I suppose I can find it again ...

Best regards,
Peter

[doublelife]

Peter,

Just that you mentioned that 10565 seemed as good or better than 10074 and we don't have much info on SQ of 10586.

Paul

[PeterSt]

OK Paul. But that info will come soon after XXHighEnd 2.03 is up.

Please notice that 10565 is an expiring build (stops working July 2016). 10586 is not.

Peter

[Diede]

Hi all,

I’ve gone through the different W10 OS builds, I’ve got them all installed on swappable SSD’s, and here are my findings:

10240 sounds like a drag and is unlistenable;
10565 is very close to 10074 and I'd say better.

I totally agree with this.

•   Build 10074: neutral in every way and sounds superb.
•   Build 10240: overall balance is OK, but a lot of smearing, and becomes very annoying after a couple of minutes.
•   Build 10565: very good, similar to 10074, but a bit more 'alive', 'magical' in comparison. Difficult to explain, but the best of all W10 builds so far.
•   Build 10586: probably the worst so far. Some smearing, but less than 10240. The overall balance is not good however. Bass and mid-bass are a few db down, voices sound hollow, and effects on voices are over accentuated.
 
Mind you, I have made this comparison with XXHE 2.02, so no MinOs yet for the last builds. I did shut down most of the Windows services manually, but this doesn’t go as far as MinOs obviously.
As soon as XXHE 2.03 gets out I’ll report again.

It would have been nice to use a more ‘official’ build, but I’m very happy with the sound I’m getting from build 10565, so no complaints here.

Best regards,
Diede

[PeterSt]

For Joachim :

Another thing is that I most cincerely hope that you are wrong for the normal situation (with XXHE 2.03). But of course you can turn up to be correct.
Actually maybe I am afraid you are ...

So it looks like I must apologise and being afraid of something is not helped by looking away.

Please notice the now changed situation, where someone (Diede) compares not with 10240 (which I don't like myself at all) but with 10565 (which I "can like"). How your, Joachim, judgement in absolute sense about 10586 can equal Diede's ... I don't know but I guess it is possible if only 10586 is even worse than 10240.

But there's a trend (with very few statistics, but alas) :

Last week, when using 10565, I received a very strange remark from the family. Strange, because it is not heard often (that we have seen on this forum), while now it is in a row of already 3 the same remarks : a strange hollow sound.

This is thus 10565 with MinOS and the OS from RAM and all.

I myself can add this as well :
The other day (maybe two weeks ago) I talked about the longest cymbals ever. This too was with 10565 as far as I recall BUT :
The more I played with that situation, the stranger I found voices sounding. Hard to explain, but like they are synthesized.
Btw, this was with a very low SFS (like 0.2).

I need to add that I play with quite different "hardware" by now and that this allows to hear in other dimensions, so to speak, which is why my own judgements seem illegal just the same. That I try to change the sound for the better with this other "hardware", well, that should be for a good cause.
But maybe people recall that I said that it now seems so that W10 is too good for my system. So that is why I am working on that now (as well).

Let me finish this post by saying that the number of permutations become so large that I myself hardly know what to do next. It seems to be though, that it is getting better and better and better.
What I just said is that it is a kind of crazy to do this on your own. For example, I skipped the install of 10586 so far because I better finish XXHighEnd 2.03 first. So actually I should be very glad with reports of you guys, Joachim ahead.
That I still could not finish 2.03 is by now a stupid chicken-egg problem. And btw I already know that it won't be today either.

Diede, a special thanks to you as well (for posting this).

Best regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

In the meantime, can anybody post a reliable download link for ISO of 10565?

It was a bit of searching, but, here you go :

http://iso.esd.microsoft.com/W10IP/BF15E0F8F8F6B6BFCD0F62892BFBA60756371D21/Windows10_InsiderPreview_x64_EN-GB_10565.iso

Peter

Edit : The "Last Edit" you see below means nothing, because I added some text in here which I removed again.

[doublelife]

Thanks very much Peter.
D/L-ing now.

Paul

[PeterSt]

All,

I have reasons to believe that M$ now messes up even more by producing various versions of one Build. I don't know where the trick is, but I feel it is related to wanting to have one formal "RTM" build number, while again a million things don't work, and so they happily upgrade within that one Build Number.

While this topic is about 10586.3, today they are at 10586.11 (or maybe even further).

By now it is not even clear (to people and with that to me) what's an "Insider Preview" (prone to expiring) and what's a normal RTM Build (never expires).
What's even worse (as it seems) is that we don't know in advance which build is there to download.

Also please notice that 10586, or better, the Threshold-2 update, is STILL not announced;
It gets even more confusing (if you're an insider to the Insider program) if we see that only yesterday a 10586 was offered to Windows Phone users, as a Preview (so not an RTM).
Edit : I said 10585 (with emphasis on the 5) and I don't know how I saw that (). But it's 10586 and with that even worse (because no RTM).

Add to this that we also got a 10565 which at first was meant to be a final RTM (but this did not last one day) and ...

Microsoft f*cks up more and more badly.
IMO.

Peter

PS: But with XXHighEnd 2.03 around, at least people now can try Builds themselves for SQ and I can stop with this idiocy.

[christoffe]

While this topic is about 10586.3, today they are at 10586.11 (or maybe even further).

Hi,

got on my working PC via the "automatic update setting" the release 10586.11 transmitted.

Joachim

[PeterSt]

And Joachim ... More happy now ?



But since you did this anyway, does it still show as an RTM version ? I mean, is the "Insider Preview" text not there (bottom right corner) ?

Peter

[coliny]

Hi Peter

As posted earlier I downloaded W10 1511 from Microsoft TechBench via this link http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/9230-windows-10-iso-download.html

It installed 10586 not 10586.3 or other variants, I'll call it 10586.0. I know this because Safe Boot shows version as 10586. Also Windows update shows no updates installed. Net3.5 was installed offline so that XXHE could be installed to stop updates with minimal risk of updates sneaking in. I was able to activate 1511 with my W7 product key so its a licensed install now.

No guarantee that the TechBench will continue to provide 10586.0

Colin

Its preferable we all use same version in case version 10586.? makes sound worst.

[PeterSt]

Its preferable we all use same version in case version 10586.? makes sound worst.

Colin, what you say there is what I intended to say, but I don't know how to say it or cause it (not) happening. In this 10586 very case though I don't even know what to say about it, because the one person who expressed he was not satisfied (and who was the only one trialling 10586 in a premature fashion anyway ... put on his safety helmet and proceeded with a next "upgrade" without even expressing (and testing ?) 10586 in the environment it's meant to be (XXHE 2.03).

What about out of control ?
(but I blame MS, not Joachim !)

Colin, do you by chance have a verdict already ? (2.03 in MinOS)

Also, do you recognize that I downloaded the same version as you (behind your just again given link) ?
I'm asking because I did not trust that 10586.3 from the start, with the hint that Joachim just receved that via Windows Update. I still think he did (Joachim ??).
IOW, do I also have 10586(.0) then ? (please see schreen shot below, first file)

Something else : What does your XXHighEnd Playlist Area show when it is cleared ?
(this is about my own detection about what OS it is and if itnow suddenly shows 1511 or something I can to start to dig out *that*).

What a mess ...

Thank you Colin !
Peter

[christoffe]

And Joachim ... More happy now ?



But since you did this anyway, does it still show as an RTM version ? I mean, is the "Insider Preview" text not there (bottom right corner) ?

Peter

Hi,

all programs I'm using are working without any problems on the PC with 10586.11. In the lower right corner no info about the release is shown.  (with "winver" release 10586.11 ...)

On the audio PC (laptop) with two SSD's releases 10240 + 10565 (preview) are installed. Infos are shown in the lower ..... each.

("winver" for 10565 shows "evaluation version valid until 2016.07.16")

Conclusion: 10586.11 is official

Joachim

[coliny]

Hi Peter

I've not installed 2.03 yet, it will be a few days before I can comment on SQ.

In XXHE it just says W10.

Boot in safe mode it will show 10586 so value must be stored somewhere.

Also check for installed updates, if there are some I guess that means its 10586.? Maybe they can be uninstalled.

Colin

[coliny]

winver returns:- version 1511 build 10586.0

[PeterSt]

Thank you Colin.

2.02 (and earlier) does not show the build number.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Conclusion: 10586.11 is official

Thank you Joachim.
Sadly 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 are all official (must be the real conclusion). Or maybe not sadly.
Wait for the day that someone says that .7 sounds superb.

What does your 2.03 show in the Playlist Area when cleared ?

Peter

[christoffe]

Conclusion: 10586.11 is official

What does your 2.03 show in the Playlist Area when cleared ?

Hi,

2.03 is installed under 10240 + 10565 preview only (not connected with the internet)

Joachim

[coliny]

My initial assesment of sound quality with W10_10586.0/XX2.03 is that it is excellent and just as good as W10074/XX2.02.

I do recommend to install 10586 without updates just in case further updates affect SQ. To do this create iso from here:- http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/9230-windows-10-iso-download.html

Disconnect from internet during install

When installed re connect install media and run the attached program to install Net3.5 offline.

Now you can install XX and stop Windows Updates before connecting to internet

Edit PeterSt :
Always use Save As on the DISM link below or otherwise the program will be executed right away (quite harmless but sure not intentional).
Btw its content is the same as what's described here : Windows 8/10 Tutorials - Install .Net 3.5.

[PeterSt]

Hi Colin, thank you for this.

Can you do us all a favor :

Find the direct link you'll eventually end up (and which you ended up yourself) and post *that* one instead of this general TenForums page which will change the link unnoticed when there's a newer ISO about.

You know that -with some effort- I did the same a week ago (according your same instructions) BUT I don't know whether I ended up with the same file you ran into (I don'd think you responded to the screenshots of my file either : Re: SQ of W10 build 10586.

Might you not understand what I mean : that TenForums page is from July 2015. Via via it links to a general MS page which changes the direct link (again without notice). And God knows that by now it may link to 10586.26 etc.
Get my idea ?

Again, thanks !
Peter

PS: I forgot myself where my direct link from a week was posted, but we could use that one (read : I can find it, if you can confirm that my file is the same as yours - see screenshot of it).

[coliny]

Hi Peter

Your download link was same as mine.

This is link direct to Microsoft TechBench download

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/techbench

Of course this like might go to a later version at any time. Use Winver to confirm after install.

Colin

[PeterSt]

Of course this like might go to a later version at any time. Use Winver to confirm after install.

Yea, and it is getting worse and worse and worse.
So that is *not* a direct link. But you know what ? Read :

Re: W10 Version 1511 (Build 10586.3) installed

I called that a direct link. But it G-D isn't either !
I looked in my Browser's history (Chrome) but that too comes up with this place holder only.

It is time to jump from a bridge; look below - that is coming from the (your) link today. File name is different at least and file size also looks different (smaller - but I can only know when I have downloaded it in full).

I now sure have saved the direct link to this one. However : FWIW because we don't know the SQ yet. And you know, I won't be installing both to compare (hey, that would be 22 hours).

So Colin, I tend to trust your judgement as of now. But we don't have a link to that file/version from a 8 days ago. We both do have the file itself though ...
(and I don't have sufficient upload speed (yet) to even upload it once to anywhere).


Peter

PS: For anyone's even more confusion, here is the direct link to the one I am downloading myself right now (am I going to do something with it ??) :
http://software-download.microsoft.com/pr/Win10_N_English_x64.iso?t=9113d400-d653-40d0-a543-22c6357206e3&e=1448189633&h=c898794f926df938cf6868109144f012
This is the same as Colin's last link TODAY. No wait, 30 minutes ago.

[christoffe]

In this 10586 very case though I don't even know what to say about it, because the one person who expressed he was not satisfied (and who was the only one trialling 10586 in a premature fashion anyway ... put on his safety helmet and proceeded with a next "upgrade" without even expressing (and testing ?) 10586 in the environment it's meant to be (XXHE 2.03).

Hi Peter,

I missed your post, and I'm not the only one. http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=3371.msg36395#msg36395

I'm testing the releases under same conditions always. There is a track with voices and percussions from David Crosby - Time I have.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HV1JYJE/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk2

The timbre (with XXH 2.02/10240) of David Crosby's voice sounds beautiful and there is an amazing reverberation of a percussion instrument in the beginning of the track. With 10240 it sounds great, with 10586 it sounds dead and with 10565 the SQ improved and but was nonmusical.

With XXH 2.03 under 10565 timbre and reverberation improved, but not as nice as with 10240 (maybe there is a little bit too much of smearing). I wrote before, the loudness/amplification of the drums are very realistic under 10240, but with the other W10 releases not. We are going to a jazz club tonight and i will listen to the "loudness balance" of the instruments. (I wrote a note about the "loudness balance" after a Ron Carter concert)

On the working PC I got release 10586.11 via the automatic update. A week before I downloaded 10586.3 as an iso file for the "working" and "audio" PC.
We might start with a 10586 test again. Release no??

Joachim

[PeterSt]

As always, thank you Joachim.

The link to Diede's post wasn't about 2.03 (hence not MinOS).

I guess it becomes super crucial that everybody mentions exactly what the conditions were for the judgement concerned.

By now (since yesterday ) I also understand that you upgraded to 10586.11 all right, but that this is not Audio (PC) related. So here too, please be more explicit about such things, which will avoid me making posts about more crash helmets (haha).

Anyway I am going to install a 10586 today (which one it is I'll have to see afterwards), and then we'll have to see about its SQ.

About 10240 and actually all :
In my opinion it is very very tricky all because we tend to like a bit of smear better than the high-accuracy. Still we should not be satisfied with that because it is a FLAVOR. This is how I am not able to survive such an OS a couple of weeks. I start to be annoyed. But to remember :
This smear seems fake to me by now and I say it again : if hardware changes are able to take that away (like the LPSU example) then it will be VERY difficult to have consensus over anything. I mean - our hardware will never be the same, no matter you and me have an NOS1a (and you not having the B75 Upgrade AFAIK).

Judgements should be expressed more carefully than ever before (I feel this is all new to us, including not being able to agree easily).

Thanks,
Peter

[BertD]

Anyway I am going to install a 10586 today (which one it is I'll have to see afterwards), and then we'll have to see about its SQ.

I can upload a copy through Wtransfer (the one I've downloaded 8 days ago) if anyone is interested?

Windows10_InsiderPreview_x64_EN-GB_10565.iso

EDIT: Oeps... only up to 2GB..

Bert

[PeterSt]

Hi Bert ... super !
But please ... don't.

It is of no use to wildly put those ISO's up for download while there's not even one judgement on it.

And ehm ... your file name shows 10565 while we talk about 10586 here.
Notice that 10565 is safely preserved at this moment. Here :
Getting the W10 build 10565.

It looks like this is all getting to us ?


Peter

[BertD]

It looks like this is all getting to us ?

Apparently... Happy that I've waited with the 10565 install to find out that it should have been 10568.0...

I'll lean back and stick to 10240 for a while longer.

Cheers!

Bert

[PeterSt]

[christoffe]

Thanks,
Peter

Hi Peter,

listen to this song & you will hear differences immediately, and you stop testing with the present OS installed, because you will not like the SQ.

David Crosby - Time I have.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HV1JYJE/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk2

Joachim

[PeterSt]

and you stop testing with the present OS installed

Which is ??
haha

Anyway, I have Croz (never listened to it yet), so I'll give that track a try.

Thanks,
Peter

[PeterSt]

So the first one (below) is the one from 8 days ago (which Colin uses too).
The second one is from Colin's link, today.

Not really the same ...

I am going to install the second one now.

Peter

[PeterSt]

WHERE IS THAT BRIDGE, PLEASE ?

[PeterSt]

Something else for a change ...

So I said I saved the link for the one which is there today. Well, maybe that does not work if we read the text in the grey square (see below).

What I did is copy the link it gives me and save that (see a few posts back). But the text tells that this link will expire in 24 hours.

Peter


PS: So I had to decide (see previous post) to install the one from 8 days ago (same as Colin's).

[HaraldN]

I tried to download the 10586-iso now and got the 10240-iso instead.

From Windows tenforums:  "UPDATE: The downloadable ISO files at Microsoft in the tutorial have gone back to RTM build 10240. "

Harald

[coliny]

Peter

Re: PS: For anyone's even more confusion, here is the direct link to the one I am downloading myself right now (am I going to do something with it ??) :
http://software-download.microsoft.com/pr/Win10_N_English_x64.iso?t=9113d400-d653-40d0-a543-22c6357206e3&e=1448189633&h=c898794f926df938cf6868109144f012
This is the same as Colin's last link TODAY. No wait, 30 minutes ago.

I see now that's not the version I downloaded. The N version is without Windows media Player :-

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/what-are-windows-10-n-and-kn-editions

[PeterSt]

Colin,

That is correct in itself.

I don't think it matters much, but the W8 OS we ship with the XXHighEnd PC is without Windows Media Player as well (we strip if off). Otherwise the N version would be the legal one for Europe (but I assume everybody will care less).

How this relates to the message I read a few weeks ago that Windows Media Player ceased (or will cease) to exist, is something else.
I guess there's more stripped off in the N vesion.

Peter

[PeterSt]

I tried to download the 10586-iso now and got the 10240-iso instead.

From Windows tenforums:  "UPDATE: The downloadable ISO files at Microsoft in the tutorial have gone back to RTM build 10240. "

Harald

Hi Harald,

Well, maybe people start to see thee truth in my messages about Microsoft completely f*cking up with this Windows 10.

OK, the OS version we talked about yesterday (and a bit today already again as well) is 10586.0. So this is the one I installed myself by now half-way; I don't know yet whether it also shows that ".0" in XXHighEnd but anyway it is not ".3" or anyhing else. So it should be the first 10586 version which MS put up Nov. 12 or 13 (2015).

Everybody with an XXHighEnd 2.xx license who likes to download exactly this one, can send me an email and I will provide a link to it (this is a friendly private excersise (not mine)).

Regards,
Peter

[christoffe]

Hi,

read this morning, that MS withdraw Build 1511 (10586.3), and therefore build 10586.0 is available only.

Joachim

[PeterSt]

FYI :

The ".0" etc. suffix like in 10586.0, does not show in XXHighEnd (in the Playlist Area when it is cleared).

Peter

[PeterSt]

My 10586.0 is playing from RAM (MinOS) now.
I didn't count the hours, but close to 11 hours again.

Sound is still off. Haha.
On in an hour or two.

Peter