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Author Topic: dedicated mains earth  (Read 15857 times)
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acg
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 11:04:13 am »

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So if we have USB properly isolated...ethernet properly isolated...power properly isolated (LPS) then there is not really too much more isolation work to do other than obsessive compulsive amongst us to attack RFI.

Anthony, the more time it is to now attack EMI !
So I am sure it is high time to get myself a decent meter for that. We can suspect EMI to be all over the place with all this isolation stuff and it should be relatively easy to now attack *that*. But first we must see it ...

Regards,
Peter

There are a gazillion meters out there for measuring all kinds of stuff.  Is there any particular unit you have in mind?  I am keen to emulate on this side of the world.
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Stealth Mach II with Xeon E5 2698 v4 20 Core 2GHz  with Hyperthreading On [40 cores]/ 32GB Ram / RAM-OS / mobo USB port

XXHighEnd 2.09 RAM-OS (W14393 RAM)
Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Buffer 4096 / Q1/3/4/5 = 14/1/1/1 / xQ1 = 1 / Processor Core Appointment Scheme = Core 1-3 / PlayerPrio = Low / ThreadPrio = RealTime / ClockRes = 1ms / Not Switch during playback = off / Xtweaks Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when idle = 1 / Provide stable power = 0 / Utilize cores always = 1 / Time Stability = Stable / Time Performance Index = Optimal / SFS 0.90MB Max 120MB / Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect = on / Start Playback during conversion = off / Do not start playback at all = off / Copy to XX-drive by standard = on / Always clear Proxy before Playback = on / Stop Remaining Desktop Services = on / Stop Desktop Services = on / Stop Remaining Services = on / Stop WASAPI Services = on / Stop W10 Services = off / Keep LAN Services = on / Persist = off / Use Remote Desktop = on/ Arc Predict / Minimize OS = on / Peak Extend = off / Unattended

Audio Chain
Stealth MachII PC >> Lush USB 1.5m >> NOS1a G3 B75, Driver v1.0.4 (4ms) >> Placette Active Linestage >> 6 way active horn speakers (Single Ended Triodes)
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 11:07:37 am »

You are the guy that can test this by reinstalling the standard ATX SMPS into your AudioPC.  I can't test it just yet but wheels are in motion for my ATX LPS...I have a custom case being cut this week in which to stuff it all and once that is done I will be able to test the ATX Controller PCB and then all manner of LPS scenarios.

But in the meantime, if you had some spare time, perhaps see if your AudioPC less LPS still performs at the same level.

Hi Anthony, yeah I could do this... and I will when I have time. Certainly with my current setup (both music and audio PCs on same 'dirty' line) I simply don't see the point in having an expensive linear PSU for the audio PC.

But what I will try first is putting the audio PC (with linear PSU) on the 'clean' dedicated audio line. I can't imagine how this could improve the SQ... but I can see how it might make it worse - no matter how good the linear PSU (and I think the Teradak is pretty good), it's still a PC that you've introduced onto the 'clean' line.

Mani.

 good good good

One thing that I can't place though is the operation of the RAM-OS in your system.  How has it worked for you?  It has worked very nicely for me but if it made a difference for you then something else must be at work given the arrangement of your components, the supposed operation of the Intona and the reason for development of the RAM-OS being to reduce PC noise but reducing current draw in the PC.
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Audio PC
Stealth Mach II with Xeon E5 2698 v4 20 Core 2GHz  with Hyperthreading On [40 cores]/ 32GB Ram / RAM-OS / mobo USB port

XXHighEnd 2.09 RAM-OS (W14393 RAM)
Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Buffer 4096 / Q1/3/4/5 = 14/1/1/1 / xQ1 = 1 / Processor Core Appointment Scheme = Core 1-3 / PlayerPrio = Low / ThreadPrio = RealTime / ClockRes = 1ms / Not Switch during playback = off / Xtweaks Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when idle = 1 / Provide stable power = 0 / Utilize cores always = 1 / Time Stability = Stable / Time Performance Index = Optimal / SFS 0.90MB Max 120MB / Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect = on / Start Playback during conversion = off / Do not start playback at all = off / Copy to XX-drive by standard = on / Always clear Proxy before Playback = on / Stop Remaining Desktop Services = on / Stop Desktop Services = on / Stop Remaining Services = on / Stop WASAPI Services = on / Stop W10 Services = off / Keep LAN Services = on / Persist = off / Use Remote Desktop = on/ Arc Predict / Minimize OS = on / Peak Extend = off / Unattended

Audio Chain
Stealth MachII PC >> Lush USB 1.5m >> NOS1a G3 B75, Driver v1.0.4 (4ms) >> Placette Active Linestage >> 6 way active horn speakers (Single Ended Triodes)
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 11:34:43 am »

More later Anthony, but for now I'll just say that I had the whole system running off the PP2000 when I first tried the Intona. I only received the PS Audio P10 last week and that was when I set up the 'clean'/'dirty' AC lines.

It'll be trivial for me to compare RAM vs. HDD with the setup as it currently is. I'll do this this evening. And if there is no difference, I'll start playing around with the settings in XX, starting with SFS.

In a way, after all these years of XX development, I really don't want the Intona (along with a dedicated AC mains circuit) to be the 'holy grail'. But if it is, it is...

Will be back with my thoughts later this evening.

Mani.
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Audio PC: Phasure Mach II *with clock upgrade* / Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, no GPU card installed / connected directly to music server
XXHighEnd: 2.10 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=30 / xQ1=40 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=5.19 / XTweaks = 52, 10, 0, 0, 1 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction (switch #5 'up/off') / Unattended
Main System: mobo USB3 port -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> First Watt F5-cloned mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System: Lush -> Phasure NOS1a G3 -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 01:38:45 pm »

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One thing that I can't place though is the operation of the RAM-OS in your system.  How has it worked for you?  It has worked very nicely for me but if it made a difference for you then something else must be at work given the arrangement of your components, the supposed operation of the Intona and the reason for development of the RAM-OS being to reduce PC noise but reducing current draw in the PC.

I hesitate to jump into a thread where I am not very knowledgeable, but here's an observation/theory I've had about why the RAM-OS sounds so fantastic: when running the OS from RAM both electrical and vibration induced noise are eliminated. Prior to my RAM-OS I've had my spinning HD and fanless Seasonic PC power supply outside of the PC case on isolation footers. This step has always had a significant impact on SQ. When I first used the unplugged RAM-OS there was something very familiar with the sound that I believe has something to do with not having a spinning HD inside of the PC case. However, unplugging the RAM-OS went one step further to improve SQ because now electrical noise was also reduced. Today only my PC power supply is outside of the case and I make very specific adjustments to the sound with the type of footer underneath it.

One more observation: maybe it's my imagination, but try putting a 3.5 HD, or some other object weighing a couple of pounds, on top of your featherweight Intona. Seemed to solidify the sound a bit here.

Brian
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 02:38:21 pm »

There are a gazillion meters out there for measuring all kinds of stuff.  Is there any particular unit you have in mind?  I am keen to emulate on this side of the world.

Anthony, by now I see what you mean !!
heat
And that is only when looking at the meters not even knowing what they exactly measure.

When I try to find out that part (what do we want to measure) then besides running into Gamma rays and such, this looks to be relevant :
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/science/toolbox/emspectrum1.html
but doesn't "connect" to those meters I see passing by. For example : http://www.lessemf.com/faq-mete.html (this site is way larger than it seems).

The only thing useful I came up for myself so far, is that there's a difference between the radiating device that will require near field measuring (e.g. hold meter close to Intona to find its radiating levels and eliminate other radiation sources) and the badly influenced receptor (like DAC) which requires far field masuring (hold meter near DAC and see what's going on for e.g. a radiating Intona).
And then I am afraid I don't even make myself clear.

But it starts with WHAT to measure. That requires what's bad for radiation. And that's a bit more hard to investigate because most is about human body (penetration) stuff or ghost hunting otherwise. no

Anyway I feel another project coming !

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - August 18, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach *III* Stealth LPS PC -> *Xeon Scalable 14/28 core* with Hyperthreading On (*set to 10/20 cores*) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *140.19*  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *35* / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush^2 A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-W* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2016, 04:03:02 pm »

Thank you Peter (and others) for your elaborate response, really helpful. thankyou

A few more questions come to mind:
What about using an optical HDMI or DVI connection and leaving the monitor connected to the Audio PC, thus avoiding going via RDC/RDP?

What about using shielded cable such as this one: http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/1031706/Stuurkabel-OeLFLEX-CLASSIC-110-SY-3-G-4-mm-Grijs-Transparant-LappKabel-1125503-50-m?ref=searchDetail
and connecting the shield only on one side to the dedicated earth?

I’m really interested in learning more about those ‘line level isolators’ which would allow me to put the amps on the house mains.

Best regards,
Diede
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XXHighEnd PC (own build) -> i7 4930K Hyperthreading On (12 cores), 16GB, Windows 8 Pro 64bit or *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Insider Preview build 10074* on separate SSD’s,  XXHE on 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk), music on internal spinning disk & LAN (*always On*) / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *4* (max 60) / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core3-5 / Playback Drive 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk) / UnAttended / All Services Off / Keep LAN - *Persist* / WallPaper *Off* / OSD *On* /Running Time *On* / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *63* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / *Custom Filter Mid 705600 or High 705600* / -> USB3 (Silverstone non isolated) Sw#3 of NOS1a = down) -> *WireWorld Ultraviolet USB Cable 1m* -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*4ms*) -> own build NCore NC1200 amps (4 mono per channel), own build of Orelo MKI Open Baffle Horn Speakers
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2016, 02:51:28 am »


A few more questions come to mind:
What about using an optical HDMI or DVI connection and leaving the monitor connected to the Audio PC, thus avoiding going via RDC/RDP?

What about using shielded cable such as this one: http://www.conrad.be/ce/nl/product/1031706/Stuurkabel-OeLFLEX-CLASSIC-110-SY-3-G-4-mm-Grijs-Transparant-LappKabel-1125503-50-m?ref=searchDetail
and connecting the shield only on one side to the dedicated earth?

I’m really interested in learning more about those ‘line level isolators’ which would allow me to put the amps on the house mains.

Best regards,
Diede


Hi Diede,

In my experience running the AudioPC without a monitor (and using RDP) is a better solution than using the monitor.  Think about the power draw of a monitor...it's more than the computer...and even if the monitor is one one ring and the AudioPC on another they are still electrically connected by the cable between them, so the noise has a direct path.  It is easier to galvanically isolate ethernet and usb (now) than HDMI/DVI/VGA etc., so when it comes to the AudioPC and a screen "you gotta keep 'em separated".

Cheers,

Anthony
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Stealth Mach II with Xeon E5 2698 v4 20 Core 2GHz  with Hyperthreading On [40 cores]/ 32GB Ram / RAM-OS / mobo USB port

XXHighEnd 2.09 RAM-OS (W14393 RAM)
Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Buffer 4096 / Q1/3/4/5 = 14/1/1/1 / xQ1 = 1 / Processor Core Appointment Scheme = Core 1-3 / PlayerPrio = Low / ThreadPrio = RealTime / ClockRes = 1ms / Not Switch during playback = off / Xtweaks Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when idle = 1 / Provide stable power = 0 / Utilize cores always = 1 / Time Stability = Stable / Time Performance Index = Optimal / SFS 0.90MB Max 120MB / Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect = on / Start Playback during conversion = off / Do not start playback at all = off / Copy to XX-drive by standard = on / Always clear Proxy before Playback = on / Stop Remaining Desktop Services = on / Stop Desktop Services = on / Stop Remaining Services = on / Stop WASAPI Services = on / Stop W10 Services = off / Keep LAN Services = on / Persist = off / Use Remote Desktop = on/ Arc Predict / Minimize OS = on / Peak Extend = off / Unattended

Audio Chain
Stealth MachII PC >> Lush USB 1.5m >> NOS1a G3 B75, Driver v1.0.4 (4ms) >> Placette Active Linestage >> 6 way active horn speakers (Single Ended Triodes)
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2016, 09:20:44 am »

Today only my PC power supply is outside of the case and I make very specific adjustments to the sound with the type of footer underneath it.

Hi Brian,

Could you please elaborate on the footers you use underneath the psu?

I was planning to do something similar and even put the psu on the floor, but then I have to find/make longer wires.

Regards,
Stanley
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AudioPC: Passive (no fans)/ Intel i7-2600S / Hyperthreading On / Motherboard: Asus P8H67-V/ RAM: Kingston DDR3 32GB/ Motherboard USB3.0 to NOS1a / PSU: Silentmaxx Fanless II/ no computer cabinet and no fans, NoFan 80 EH passive CPU cooler/ Music via LAN on HDD on MusicServerPC (desktop computer-W10)/ All music in WAV /Control on Ipad <-> Wifi <-> router <-> LAN <-> MusicServerPC <-> LAN <-> AudioPC.

01-10-2018: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM/ XXHE 2.10 / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 10/ Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19 (max 140.19)/ No Filter/ not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Peak Extend Off /Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback/ UnAttended / All Services Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : 35, 10, -, 0, 1/ Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Arc Prediction 16x / -> Lush^2 USB-cable 70cm > Phasure NOS1a 75B G3 DAC, Driver v1.0.4) (16ms)/ Output via Balanced Blaxius BNC Interlinks > Audio Analogue Maestro Balanced Monoblocks> speakers: Apogee Acoustics Scintilla (rebuild).
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2016, 09:32:52 am »



In my experience running the AudioPC without a monitor (and using RDP) is a better solution than using the monitor.  Think about the power draw of a monitor...it's more than the computer...


Hi,

During music replay in an “unattended mode” XXH shuts the monitor down (sleeping mode), so no power ....... and that should not influence the SQ, to my understanding.

Joachim
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2016, 09:50:27 am »



In my experience running the AudioPC without a monitor (and using RDP) is a better solution than using the monitor.  Think about the power draw of a monitor...it's more than the computer...


The current version of XXHE (correct me if I am wrong Peter) does not shut down the monitor, it merely puts up a black wallpaper and the monitor is 100% still connected.



Hi,

During music replay in an “unattended mode” XXH shuts the monitor down (sleeping mode), so no power ....... and that should not influence the SQ, to my understanding.

Joachim

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Audio PC
Stealth Mach II with Xeon E5 2698 v4 20 Core 2GHz  with Hyperthreading On [40 cores]/ 32GB Ram / RAM-OS / mobo USB port

XXHighEnd 2.09 RAM-OS (W14393 RAM)
Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Buffer 4096 / Q1/3/4/5 = 14/1/1/1 / xQ1 = 1 / Processor Core Appointment Scheme = Core 1-3 / PlayerPrio = Low / ThreadPrio = RealTime / ClockRes = 1ms / Not Switch during playback = off / Xtweaks Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when idle = 1 / Provide stable power = 0 / Utilize cores always = 1 / Time Stability = Stable / Time Performance Index = Optimal / SFS 0.90MB Max 120MB / Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect = on / Start Playback during conversion = off / Do not start playback at all = off / Copy to XX-drive by standard = on / Always clear Proxy before Playback = on / Stop Remaining Desktop Services = on / Stop Desktop Services = on / Stop Remaining Services = on / Stop WASAPI Services = on / Stop W10 Services = off / Keep LAN Services = on / Persist = off / Use Remote Desktop = on/ Arc Predict / Minimize OS = on / Peak Extend = off / Unattended

Audio Chain
Stealth MachII PC >> Lush USB 1.5m >> NOS1a G3 B75, Driver v1.0.4 (4ms) >> Placette Active Linestage >> 6 way active horn speakers (Single Ended Triodes)
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2016, 10:09:20 am »



In my experience running the AudioPC without a monitor (and using RDP) is a better solution than using the monitor.  Think about the power draw of a monitor...it's more than the computer...


The current version of XXHE (correct me if I am wrong Peter) does not shut down the monitor, it merely puts up a black wallpaper and the monitor is 100% still connected.



Hi,

During music replay in an “unattended mode” XXH shuts the monitor down (sleeping mode), so no power ....... and that should not influence the SQ, to my understanding.

Joachim


Hi,

maybe I'm wrong  scratching I take another route via the "energy saving options", and the monitor goes into the sleeping mode, and then the screen is dead.

I'm not convinced with the route tablet - server PC - audio PC, because I made different experiences. Shutting down ALL network services at the audio PC creates the best SQ on my system.
Maybe the last comment is better to discuss in a different thread.

Joachim
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2016, 12:29:15 pm »

It'll be trivial for me to compare RAM vs. HDD with the setup as it currently is. I'll do this this evening. And if there is no difference, I'll start playing around with the settings in XX, starting with SFS.

Well, I actually started with the latter and played around with some SFS settings. Recently, I've settled on SFS=0.07 - really nice sound with absolutely zero hiccups. I set SFS to 10 and listened. The sound definitely changed exactly in line with what we'd expect - it thickened slightly, became flatter and lost the lovely sparkle.

So, SFS still matters, even with my two AC mains lines and galvanic isolation between them via the Intona. Exactly how SFS can still make a difference is totally beyond me.

Via the mains? Well, there is no way noise could be travelling back from the PC, through its linear PSU, through the PP2000 on-line battery regenerator (i.e. batteries always connected to the inverter), through the house's consumer unit, back to the AC meter, through the dedicated low impedance AC line, through the dedicated hifi consumer unit, through the 15KVA isolation transformer, through the PS Audio P10 regenerator to the NOS1a. No way!

Via RFI? Well, the NOS1a sits in my little 'vinyl ripping studio' in the basement. This has a Faraday cage built around it (or as close to a real Faraday cage as I could get - the mobile phone signal cuts out as soon as I enter). The everything else sits outside this 'studio'.

Through the USB connection? This seems the only explanation to me. So, perhaps the Intona and the NOS1a are still not totally immune from USB noise?

Thoughts?

Mani.

Edit: Something I forgot to mention but that may be important is that the difference between SFS=0.07 and SFS=10 was much less than I expected.
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Audio PC: Phasure Mach II *with clock upgrade* / Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, no GPU card installed / connected directly to music server
XXHighEnd: 2.10 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=30 / xQ1=40 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=5.19 / XTweaks = 52, 10, 0, 0, 1 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction (switch #5 'up/off') / Unattended
Main System: mobo USB3 port -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> First Watt F5-cloned mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System: Lush -> Phasure NOS1a G3 -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2016, 02:06:20 pm »

...and even if the monitor is one one ring and the AudioPC on another they are still electrically connected by the cable between them, so the noise has a direct path."

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

Thank you for sharing your experience.

For clarification, how do you see the monitor and PC electrically connected if we use an optical HDMI or DVI connector?

Especially if they are on a separate earth, and possible even on a different phase (I have 3 phases in triangle at my house).

Thanks,
Diede


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W8 and W10 - June 8, 2015 (2.02)
XXHighEnd PC (own build) -> i7 4930K Hyperthreading On (12 cores), 16GB, Windows 8 Pro 64bit or *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Insider Preview build 10074* on separate SSD’s,  XXHE on 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk), music on internal spinning disk & LAN (*always On*) / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *4* (max 60) / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core3-5 / Playback Drive 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk) / UnAttended / All Services Off / Keep LAN - *Persist* / WallPaper *Off* / OSD *On* /Running Time *On* / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *63* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / *Custom Filter Mid 705600 or High 705600* / -> USB3 (Silverstone non isolated) Sw#3 of NOS1a = down) -> *WireWorld Ultraviolet USB Cable 1m* -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*4ms*) -> own build NCore NC1200 amps (4 mono per channel), own build of Orelo MKI Open Baffle Horn Speakers
manisandher
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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2016, 03:22:49 pm »

I just tried Peter's original idea:

Audio Ring
- Audio PC as lean as possible and without monitor
- D/A Converter (connected to Audio PC)
- Power Amps (preferably no pre-amp)
- (connection to Music Server PC via direct LAN cable)

House Ring
- Music Server PC
- Monitor
- When wanted, external disks with switching supplies
- (Connection to Audio PC via direct LAN cable)
- Router, Modem, etc.

So essentially, I just moved the audio PC from my 'dirty' mains line to my 'clean' mains line to achieve pretty much Peter's exact setup. And the sound changed for sure... in very much the same way as increasing SFS. It became fuller, but also flatter, less dynamic and with less sparkle. The 'groove' was missing.

There is no doubt that I prefer the sound with the audio PC on the 'dirty' line, keeping the 'clean' line solely for the NOS1a and Orelo speakers, with, of course, the Intona doing the duty of galvanically isolating the NOS1a from the audio PC. (Without the Intona, this is a massive 'no-go' as potentially nasty ground loops would be created all over the place.)

You are the guy that can test this by reinstalling the standard ATX SMPS into your AudioPC.  I can't test it just yet but wheels are in motion for my ATX LPS...I have a custom case being cut this week in which to stuff it all and once that is done I will be able to test the ATX Controller PCB and then all manner of LPS scenarios.

But in the meantime, if you had some spare time, perhaps see if your AudioPC less LPS still performs at the same level.

Well this now becomes very important IMO. With the audio PC on the 'dirty' line, does one really need an expensive linear ATX PSU? Might a good SMPS ATX be just as good, or even perhaps a little better? I will definitely try this... but not for a week or so at least. The only ATX SMPS I have here has malfunctioned. I'm sending it back to Seasonic because it's still within its 5-year warranty, but don't expect a repaired unit to be sent back to me for a while. (Also, I'm working out of the country all of next week.) Will report back as soon as I have a chance to try things.

Meanwhile, if anyone else has two *isolated lines, perhaps they could try my setup and report their thoughts.

Mani.

* Of course, my AC earths are not truly isolated - they can't be as there is literally 'earth' between them. I've taken some measurements between the shield of the input Clarixa to the Intona and the shield of the output Clarixa from the Intona. The DC resistance is 3.7MΩ. The potential difference is 0.345V. If there were no Intona in place, the current that would be flowing through the Clarixa shield would be 9e-8A. (Edit: I guess this is the DC flowing through the Intona.)
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Audio PC: Phasure Mach II *with clock upgrade* / Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, no GPU card installed / connected directly to music server
XXHighEnd: 2.10 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=30 / xQ1=40 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=5.19 / XTweaks = 52, 10, 0, 0, 1 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction (switch #5 'up/off') / Unattended
Main System: mobo USB3 port -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> First Watt F5-cloned mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System: Lush -> Phasure NOS1a G3 -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
christoffe
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2016, 03:38:27 pm »

Found this:

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/earth.html
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