Can't play with Terratec phase 24FW

[GerardA]

Hi Peter,

I installed 09Uo and get the following messages, no sound.:

The last picture shows the settings.

[PeterSt]

GerardA,

To be sure : I recall you could play before ? IOW, what worked before now doesn't ?

Or are you trying something else now ?

Did you try the normal 44.1/16 setting ?

[GerardA]

Hi Peter,

Before I could play with engine 3 and only got the message about exclusive mode.

After I instaalled 9u0 I get these messages for all the settings I tried.
If I change samplerate to something else than 44.1 I get an extra message about a wrong samplerate,
so that's not the problem I think.
The first message I showed I get too when I change the volumesetting.

BTW When I clear the playlist one song remains and I can not get it out in any way...

[PeterSt]

It shouldn't differ, but with 0.9u-0a it's the same I suppose ?

[GerardA]

BTW I also got the Invalidarg at some time.
I'll try to see if I get more out of it today.
Looks like it is worth the trouble.

[PeterSt]

Actually I don't see the difference (apart from messages) when you

a. Set the "Dac is" to 44.1/16;
b. Set the volume to -0dB;
c. Play 44.1/16 files.

Did you try that ? (but 0.9u-0a please)

[PeterSt]

Actually I don't see the difference (apart from messages)

I was just thinking ... do you still have the proper bitrate etc. (I mean, like before when it worked !) selected in the Sound Device's properties - Advanced ?
And, is that Sound Device still the Primary Device ?

Of course we are not heading for Shared Mode playback, but at least it should do what it did before ...

[GerardA]

Eureka!

I get music now.

I changed the setting to "DAC is 16 bits 44.1kHz" and I get some messages (see below) and the music starts to play. If I set the setting to 24/192 the problem as reported before happens again.
As you can see there are now less messages.
I don't know if the sound is better this way?
I can not hear it now, vacuum cleaner, hairdryer and two crying/playing children (those sundays are good for family life  )

[PeterSt]

Ok, this is what I expected. Now you only don't "need" those messages. BUT : they will stay in, because actually you want Exclusive Mode.

Now on this point currently I'm lost, because there would be no real reason that I know of that Exclusive Mode is not allowed, while Shared Mode is. The only thing which might help is the information on what Shared Mode actually uses. The big point is : it should be using the data in that 2|16|44100|176400|4 message, which just is the right data. If you have any means to check it, ... please tell me.

At this point you should try a native 96/24 file (buy one from Linn for a few euri if you don't have any) and let me know what happens.
If this works in Exclusive Mode I'd know that there must be some setting I can emulate (which would come down to Doubling and 16 to 24 which is *not* in there yet).

[GerardA]

No change, 96/24 gives the same messages, with other numbers.
Here are the pictures:

[GerardA]

Heee,

I changed the setting to 32 bits (most often) and got some new messages and it started to play.
After stop and play it started to play without messages!!!!!
Keep my fingers crossed!

And the volumecontrol of the laptop has no effect so this must be exclusive mode 

With 16bit/44kHz I can not choose the 32 bit option, with 24/96 it is possible, maybe a small change for this?

[GerardA]

Hi Peter,

To be more clear, I guess exclusive mode for the terratec is only possible if you feed it 32 bits?
And if so is it possible for you to make it an option to add the extra bits when playing a 16 bit file?

[GerardA]

Finally some oportunity to compare different modes.
I upsampled cassandra wilsons' blue light till dawn to 96/24 and to 88/24.
The 96/24 can play in exclusive mode, the 88 in shared mode.
The difference between them is that in exclusive mode I have extra small detail in the highs,
my tweeter sounds 'high end' in stead of a regular one like before.
The violins sound spectacular and when cassandra stops singing now you can hear her going one very softly.
Both versions and also 16bit 44 have a perfect bass, compared to the previous version the rhytm is back,
I was really afraid my TDL transmissionlines were ready for e-bay!

Then of course the peace is back, my wife can even do her homework while I play David Bowie, Rebel Rebel,
a song which brings back the memory of having fun with lp's, which is really back!
Even when you feel sick the music is like a medicine that soothes your soul.
(Maybe I have a fever and better stop!)

BTW I was thinking of better integration of the left and right channel, like before their was an option on a FM-tuner
to make the treble mono. Call it inter channel jitter-reduction.
Don't laugh to loud, hope I can give some fun back.

[PeterSt]

while I play David Bowie, Rebel Rebel, a song which brings back the memory of having fun with lp's, which is really back!

Might you mean the joy of lp's themselves ... you are the first saying this. Ok, whether you meant to say this or not, this is an excerpt from the first version of the Release Notes of 0.9u-0 I never put up (didn't dare) :

Yes. I'm serious. I can't help it. No matter what I play, no matter how loud I play it, each and every second it reminds me of vinyl. Did I want vinyl ? h*ll no. But this just does it. Is it good ? hahaha, for the matters of warmth, a kind of fuzzyness (controlled though now !), and getting there right with the musicians ... yes ! Did I plan this ? NO ! not this time. Not that.

The 96/24 can play in exclusive mode, the 88 in shared mode.

Ah ! a piece of the puzzle. But I'm not sure yet what to make of it, ;
Strangely enough I can just Double to 88.2/24 (which I have working here now ) while this option is not listed in the Vista Audio Properties - Advanced (like 88.2 is not there at all and I could use 88.2/16 always). There would be no difference with my internally "converted" file and your home brew created I'm afraid ...
Note that I will *not* resample to 96 because it won't be good enough (says me). Now what ? out of solutions ?

I said it before to weha ... go get yourself another soundcard ...


To the good stuff again :

BTW I was thinking of better integration of the left and right channel, like before their was an option on a FM-tuner
to make the treble mono. Call it inter channel jitter-reduction.
Don't laugh to loud, hope I can give some fun back.

This is recognizeable all over. You are not the first who (indirectly) refers to phase changes. For me this was the first noticeable thing. I wasn't sure whether it was for better or for worse back then, but since I've been playing 0.9u for over two weeks without ever wanting to go back ... it must be a good thing. Also, once you know (or think) things about better phase integration took place, you can recognize more of it. Like I said elsewhere : it even has a high degree of better bass - mid/high integration. Or put differently : although the balance between highs and bass and everything in between seem to have changed to a large degree, nothing in my mind wants to change things. It seems there's a huge amount of headroom now on these matters ... somehow.

Someday we'll understand, and I have the hunch that I will be there to witness it.
But I'm peep of course.

[GerardA]

I'm sorry I have to reply,

Did I plan this ? NO ! not this time. Not that.

This is what I planned with my Pink Triangle Anniversary SME V Frog but never achieved.
The memory of my highest enjoyment of music (next to live) goes to a simple tape of an lp played with a simple MD-pickup,

For the 88/96 I upsampled with r8brain, free and not the worst, but I'm sure you can do it better/perfect.!
But please tell us your plans because ripping all the CD's (and lp's) to 88/24 is a lot of work!

About Vista I am puzzled still, the shared 24/96 properties in my laptop I have to set with the realtek stereo mixer which is shut off by default.
If I change them I get some extra messages from you/your program.

Bass integration now is good, perfect whatever, it seems you only notice it when things are wrong.
I read a long time ago that if the treble is better the bass sounds improved too, must be happening here for sure.

What is a peep??

[PeterSt]

Piepjong.

[Telstar]

Would installing the SP1 help with these errors?

Or I should just wait for next version? 

[PeterSt]

Would installing the SP1 help with these errors?

Most probably not. But you can always try !

Or I should just wait for next version?

And maybe find out that again it doesn't work ? hmm ...
But keep in mind, the uprating possibility from 44.1/16 to 88.2/24 seems important (no matter it apparently should be 96).
I say : 50% chance that I can solve it.

[GerardA]

Peter,

Your exclusivemode listing program would be welcome here too.
I just found out that 88/24 works exclusive with 'needs 32'.
Stupid of me I did not test this more thoroughly before!!
Then it would be possible!?! I'm sure 88 will be better than 96, gonna compare it tomorrow...

[GerardA]

Hi Peter,

The good news:
Upsampling to 88 is working in exclusive mode!!

The bad news:

Terratec phase 24 FW

Start Audio Device Analysis Exclusive Mode support
0479FD38

    Supported : 2|16|44100|176400|4
    Supported : 2|24|44100|264600|6
    Supported : 2|32|44100|352800|8
Not supported : 2|16|48000|192000|4
Not supported : 2|24|48000|288000|6
Not supported : 2|32|48000|384000|8
Not supported : 2|16|88200|352800|4
Not supported : 2|24|88200|529200|6
Not supported : 2|32|88200|705600|8
Not supported : 2|16|96000|384000|4
Not supported : 2|24|96000|576000|6
Not supported : 2|32|96000|768000|8
Not supported : 2|16|176400|705600|4
Not supported : 2|24|176400|1058400|6
Not supported : 2|32|176400|1411200|8
Not supported : 2|16|192000|768000|4
Not supported : 2|24|192000|1152000|6
Not supported : 2|32|192000|1536000|8

If I change the DAC to 88 it says here everything for 88 is supported.
I guess for the rest too.
Strange..

OK let's try 44 -> It works in exclusive mode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well thanks for the good work,
I am going to enjoy it now!!

[Telstar]

But keep in mind, the uprating possibility from 44.1/16 to 88.2/24 seems important (no matter it apparently should be 96).
I say : 50% chance that I can solve it.

Well, I just installed v 09u-1. I tried to do the dac test. As soon as i hit play i get an error that the file is already in use or something like this (i'm trying to replicate, because i didnt save it in photoshop before the BSOD).
Hitting ok, error again, and it loops.

I shut down xxhe and this time without doing anything i hit play, and it started playing without errors. I hit stop and poof, BSOD irql_not_less_than_equal

bah. I blame Terratec drivers not you. I really need to get another sound device.
Please suggest me something cheap that i can use to keep doing tests.

PS: Suggestion: put a save settings so when it crashes i dont loose everything.

[Telstar]

OK, (after rebooting) the error appeared again, so its replicable.
Here u go.

[PeterSt]

PS: Suggestion: put a save settings so when it crashes i dont loose everything.

Yeah, this is annoying. But it really is getting the habit of -after a new version- set your settings, and after that click Off. Then it's saved.
Not that I ever thought of that myself before I lost my settings for whatever "test" reason.

On the BSOD ... do you really get that ? normal Vista, or SP1 maybe ?
If you can be more precise on the error(s) maybe I can help ?
Also, let's wait a bit please. Maybe others have that too now, because I *do* something which is not completely legal (but it works okay here for the 3 soundcards I have here).

[PeterSt]

OK, (after rebooting) the error appeared again, so its replicable.
Here u go.

Ah, okay. But this is solveable. Try a normal WAV file. This is most probably a FLAC or MP3.

[Telstar]

PS: Suggestion: put a save settings so when it crashes i dont loose everything.

Yeah, this is annoying. But it really is getting the habit of -after a new version- set your settings, and after that click Off. Then it's saved.
Not that I ever thought of that myself before I lost my settings for whatever "test" reason.

On the BSOD ... do you really get that ? normal Vista, or SP1 maybe ?
If you can be more precise on the error(s) maybe I can help ?
Also, let's wait a bit please. Maybe others have that too now, because I *do* something which is not completely legal (but it works okay here for the 3 soundcards I have here).

I do that, but because the errors/crashes are sometimes unpredictable, i would still prefer a save settings.

Just posted the Error.
The bsod type has been pointed out in my previous post. I'm 99% sure that is because of the cr*ppy terratec beta drivers. i didnt install SP1 yet, I planned to if i couldnt still get exclusive mode, but i can :D :D

The FUNNY thing is that i'm using Exclusive mode now! All those errors are gone.

[Telstar]

Ah, okay. But this is solveable. Try a normal WAV file. This is most probably a FLAC or MP3.

OK, will try.

Unfortunately also the BSOD when stopping playback is duplicable
Just did with a loud PRRRRR through my speakers...

Do you want the dump?

[PeterSt]

No, not for now. I assume the cause is the same.

Just did with a loud PRRRRR through my speakers...

Good that you mention it. I was just going to try ...

[Telstar]

DAC support results (terratec dmx6 fire LT pci):

Start Audio Device Analysis Exclusive Mode support
04BCFD38

    Supported : 2|16|44100|176400|4
    Supported : 2|24|44100|264600|6
    Supported : 2|32|44100|352800|8
    Supported : 2|16|48000|192000|4
    Supported : 2|24|48000|288000|6
    Supported : 2|32|48000|384000|8
    Supported : 2|16|88200|352800|4
    Supported : 2|24|88200|529200|6
    Supported : 2|32|88200|705600|8
    Supported : 2|16|96000|384000|4
    Supported : 2|24|96000|576000|6
    Supported : 2|32|96000|768000|8
Not supported : 2|16|176400|705600|4
Not supported : 2|24|176400|1058400|6
Not supported : 2|32|176400|1411200|8
Not supported : 2|16|192000|768000|4
Not supported : 2|24|192000|1152000|6
Not supported : 2|32|192000|1536000|8

I restarted, then stopped playing the wav file and, bsod again. The culprit seems to be this:
portcls.sys

Speakers off this time :D

[PeterSt]

Is this with a normal WAV now ?

And again ... Vista/SP1 ?

[Telstar]

Is this with a normal WAV now ?

And again ... Vista/SP1 ?

Yes, vista x32 no SP.

I googled and found these:
http://www.osronline.com/ddkx/stream/pcdesign_9y1z.htm

Could be related to the mainboard (which bios i cannot update), to nvidia graphics drivers (unlikely), to terratec drivers (most likely), or to something you changed in xxhe between u0 and u1.

[PeterSt]

It is plain impossible that *and* Needs 24 *and* needs 32 is supported. So put your bets on 32 only, and try now.
Note that it can do "more" than before. If you only have errors now while before something played, then I must be careful with what I did.
So please let know ...

[Telstar]

It is plain impossible that *and* Needs 24 *and* needs 32 is supported. So put your bets on 32 only, and try now.
Note that it can do "more" than before. If you only have errors now while before something played, then I must be careful with what I did.
So please let know ...

I'm not sure to understand: do you want me to put 32 bit/something in the dac properties and try again to play something?
I decided to go ahead and i'm installing SP1 right now.

[Telstar]

OK i cancelled the SP install and i'm gonna try playing a wav, with dac set at 32/96.
BSOD again.

I'm gonn ainstall the SP1, i dont see other solutions.

[PeterSt]

I was trying to make clear to not try any "DAC Needs 24" setting, and only 32. I estimate the 24 can't be right (wrongly reported by Vista / the Terratec driver) and when you try to play with it, things go severely wrong. Before it couldn't come that far because something else in Vista said nothing was possible.

Don't forget the Double option (and "Needs 32") which I'd put my horses on. Also keep in mind : it would be the most logical for a DAC (Soundcard) which supports 24 bits to play 96K files. 88.2 would do too then. And otherwise ... try a genuin 96/24 file now ...

[Telstar]

The SP1 did not fix the BSOD.

BTW, the program hangs up (not responding) when i click on the library tab and then to another one.

[PeterSt]

The SP1 did not fix the BSOD.

I am really sorry, but I can't determine from your posts when exactly this happens, except for always.

BTW, the program hangs up (not responding) when i click on the library tab and then to another one.

Here too, messages like this I can't deal with. Is this caused by SP1 now ? was it in the few minutes you could try 0.9u-1 the same 9 (I bet not) or was in with 0.9u-0a as well ?

Please try to be more clear, as well as maybe you can answer my questions more precisely. Before SP1 I don't think you quite did already, and now *I* am lost ...

In each occasion try to imagine that I really can't guess what happens in which situation. IOW, tell EVERYTHING you can imagine I can't guess. Ok ?

[SeVeReD]

When I push the library tab, I have to wait a few seconds for the explorer window to pop up... if I push any buttons while explorer is still loading I get no response... patience?  Can be a tiny pain if I push library tab and then quickly want to go to a different tab... but if it's just slow computer or whatever... it's only a few seconds wait that I can learn to live with.

[PeterSt]

I shut down xxhe and this time without doing anything i hit play, and it started playing without errors. I hit stop and poof, BSOD irql_not_less_than_equal

Today I coincidentally ran into a post mentioning this error as caused by the (W?)LAN driver.

Also, if you have Bluetooth on board (and you don't use it), try to uninstall the drivers for it.

[SeVeReD]

Last night I saw the wait had more to do with waiting for my albums picture/selections to show up then it did explorer...(different folders with varying amounts of wavs would load faster/slower depending on how many albums where in folder/gallery).  My largest gallery only takes a few seconds to load... no biggy.  If I go to a folder with no wav folders... explorer window pops up quick.

[Telstar]

I shut down xxhe and this time without doing anything i hit play, and it started playing without errors. I hit stop and poof, BSOD irql_not_less_than_equal

Today I coincidentally ran into a post mentioning this error as caused by the (W?)LAN driver.

Also, if you have Bluetooth on board (and you don't use it), try to uninstall the drivers for it.

That BSOD can be caused by almost anything. But because my machine is rock solid, the only cause is the audio. Either terratec driver, or the handing of the pci use by the mainboard or something in the latest version of xxhe.