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Author Topic: Linear Power supply for old XXHighEnd PC  (Read 2413 times)
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boleary
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« on: May 07, 2017, 04:50:15 pm »

Hi Peter, am currently saving my nickles and dimes for a Mach II XXHighEnd PC. In the meantime, any way your pc linear power supply could be fitted with my current mb- the one from the old XXHighend PC? If so what might you charge for that?  Happy
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *1.0,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 08:44:21 pm »

Hey there Brian,

Well, things are a leeeeettle bit different from what you might expect. prankster

Fairly soon after the Stealth was created and hit the roads, I also made a linear PSU especially for the old XXHighEnd PC. But I never even announced it. I also never tested it, but it will work ... (it is based on the Stealth's).

This one is far more complicated because it anticipates whatever unknown jobs and as you may be able to envision from below photo, it allows for a million configurations for 3 different voltages at the same time (like 3.3, 5 and 12) but with the storage capacitors configured as you wish. Well, "you", indeed because I am not going to try it.

These configurations are about how capacitors make the sound in such a situation - same as with the Stealth. But the LPSU and its configuration for the Stealth was determined by me, which is a project in itself where it is about capacitor arrangements. Anyway, the Stealth is just as is, while this one is configurable until you drop dead.
To give the idea : Stealth has only 13,600uF of capacitance (this is deliberately so low) while this one can hold 68,000uF for 12V alone which is how this part of the PSU will operate for the XXHighEnd PC. And 15A.

For ourselves we have a crazy document about what jumpers to put where for the configuration which is about all the numbers you see. Below you also see three drawings which are only for ourselves so we could make that document with jumper settings and to prove that no shortcuts occur / paths are used in combination which is not allowed. These are 3 drawings out of 12 we have for the various base combinations of how the voltages van be set up.

You know, you won't be inerested in this at all, but it is a kind of nice to show what happens all behind the scenes and that more projects never see daylight than those which do. This one actually did, but I never utilized it.

To come up with the price out of the blue is a bit difficult at the moment because it is mainly about the testing which never happened and the by now necessary explicit build of such an older PC. But I still have the parts for one, so this is doable. Of course the main thing is about whether it can hold (the power etc.) and whether the heat can be dissipated. But of all was calculated correctly, it can.
Think in the range of 400 - 450 euros. Maybe less.

Lastly, this board was very precisely created for exactly that cabinet of the old XXHighEnd PC. This includes that cut off corner, as it needs to be upright and then also the transformer can be neatly in there.

Call me crazy, OK ?
Peter


* Linear Power Supply XXHighEnd PC 01.jpg (65.14 KB, 744x523 - viewed 440 times.)

* PPSU 4x12.png (180.88 KB, 1520x868 - viewed 447 times.)

* PPSU 3x12-5(1x5).png (184.21 KB, 1509x866 - viewed 444 times.)

* PPSU 2x5(1x3-5-12)(1x12).png (206.94 KB, 1520x868 - viewed 444 times.)
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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - September 2017 (2.08)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *14/-/1/1/1/* Q1Factor = *1* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.9*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filter Low 705600 / -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush USB 1m00* -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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boleary
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 07:49:35 pm »

Wow Peter, cannot thank you enough for even considering this. Do you ever rest? Your work is amazing.

Anyway, I would be looking for the very simplest linear supply: one output for the mb of the old XXHighEnd PC as well as  proper outputs for the processor on the mb. I simply lack the know how to work with too many options/or choices and I would not be in a proper position to do testing.

No big deal if you are not interested. I agree it's important that folks get to see a bit of the work no one knows about!

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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *1.0,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 03:09:33 pm »

Hi,

bought this - HDPLEX 400W Hi-Fi DC-ATX Converter+HDPLEX 300W AC-DC combo at
https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-400w-hi-fi-dc-atx-power-supply-16v-24v-wide-range-voltage-input.html

and the SQ improves ..... .  Happy Happy Happy Happy

Investment: appr. €161,00

The two HDD bays are not usable anymore, but SQ comes first.

Joachim

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boleary
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2017, 03:59:16 am »

Thanks Joachim! Did this replace a Seasonic fanless  400w PS?
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *1.0,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2017, 03:34:21 pm »

Thanks Joachim! Did this replace a Seasonic fanless  400w PS?

Hi,

yes, it replaces the original PSU installed. The present operating temperatures of the both components are well below 50° C, and stable.
This combination may not be that sophisticated as Peters design shown above, but a LPSU (tested with my laptop two years ago) is an abolute must for an audiophile SQ. The outcome is amazing.

Joachim
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PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2017, 04:43:28 pm »

Hi Joachim,

I can't see everything on my phone (website of HD-PLEX is very distorted) but I don't think that is a linear power supply. So, the 300W part is a switching AC-DC converter.

Apologies if I appear to be wrong ...

Peter
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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - September 2017 (2.08)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *14/-/1/1/1/* Q1Factor = *1* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.9*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filter Low 705600 / -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush USB 1m00* -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2017, 06:35:58 pm »

After looking at the site I think Peter's right, that's why i asked if it replaced that Seasonic PS, cause that's the one I have. Perhaps, though I don't know for sure, the improved SQ your getting Joachim, comes from going to a fanless PS from the original PS with a fan. My Seasonic was quite an improvement over a high end Coursair that had a fan. I'm not sure that the one you've found would be an improvement over the fanless Seasonic. However, for about $800 Hyponex does sell a linear 400w PS, though its huge.
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *1.0,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2017, 09:34:38 pm »

I borrowed the card from a friend and tried the HDPLEX 400W Hi-Fi DC-ATX over my fanless Seasonic. The difference is audible and SQ improved. At the moment I'm using a Dell labtop adapter lying around to feed the card. I will test it too with a HAM Radio linear power supply from another friend.

Georg
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XXHE 2.04 - PC ASUS M5A97 EVO R2.0 / Seasonic P-400FL Platin / 8 CPU cores @0.8GHz, 16GB, Windows 10 *10586.0*, *music on LAN*, *RDP control*, XXHighend on 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk), Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback / Playback Drive 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk) / UnAttended (Just Start) / *Keep LAN - Not Persist* / No WallPaper / No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 63 / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Custom filter high 352800 (NOS)
USB3 Silverstone isolated → Short cable → Intona (Standard) → Clairixia cable
→WaveIO to dddac1794 or to Soekris DAM1021
→Gainclone → TQWT 9710M/01 + BMS 4524 Horn
→Anaview ALC0300-1300 → Quad ESL63 Pro
→Funk MTX Monitor → AKG K701
Mains conditioning without switching controller: RFT Netzregler Nr. 120
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 08:40:53 am »

After looking at the site I think Peter's right, that's why i asked if it replaced that Seasonic PS, cause that's the one I have.


Hi,

Peter is right. That "HDPLEX 300W AC-DC" is a switching unit.
The former PSU is a "Be quiet" brand with a fan.

The power comsumption of the first "XXH PC" is well under 60 Watts. I will start  "power consumption" tests with variuos operation conditions and will connect
a "160 Watt HDPlex LPSU" to the PC and compare the SQ during the day.

The combination with the "HDPLEX 300W AC-DC" presents a superior SQ to the former PSU at present.

Please accept my apologies for the false infomation concerning ..... !

Joachim
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boleary
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 09:56:51 pm »

No problem, always looking for that next tweak!  Happy
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *1.0,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2017, 12:18:56 am »

Hi,
following test results with

1.   HDPLEX 400W Hi-Fi DC-ATX Converter + HDPLEX 300W AC-DC
1A. The power consumption of the XXH PC (with a Xeon CPU) is appr. 60 Watts during normal operation.  72 Watts with a „heavy load“ during converting/storing files in „Unattended mode“ into RAM
1B. The surface temperature of both components was appr. 40°C
1C. The improvement of the SQ was very audible compared to the original assembly with the (cooling fan) "Bequiet" PSU

The ambient temperature during the tests/comparison was 26°C

2.   HDPLEX 400W Hi-Fi DC-ATX Converter + 160 Watt HDPlex LPSU
2A. The power consumption of the XXH PC (with a Xeon CPU) is now  appr. 79 Watts during normal operation.  91 Watts at the worst case.
2B. The surface temperature of the HDPLEX 400W Hi-Fi DC-ATX Converter was appr. 40°C,  and  at the 160 Watt HDPlex LPSU appr. 45°C
2C. The difference of the SQ between 1) and 2) is  very subtle, and I can’t say in what direction and it needs more listening.

Conclusion:
The 200watt HDPlex LPSU should work with the HDPLEX 400W Hi-Fi DC-ATX Converter and the components under item 1) are a bargain and should satisfy the owners of the first XXH PC with a XEON CPU.

Joachim
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 11:16:55 am »

Thank you, very interesting.

So is the conclusion justified that the benefits of a lpsu over a good fanless switching psu is not necessarily obvious? Of course depending on the pc processor, etc.?

I ask because when I built my audio pc, I invested in a "good" spsu (https://www.silentmaxx.de/leise-komponenten/netzteil-silentmaxxr-fanless-ii-500watt.html) and it seems not so obvious what the benefits will be of a lpsu.

Stanley
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AudioPC: Passive (no fans)/ Intel i7-2600S @ 1600 MHz/ / Hyperthreading On / Motherboard: Asus P8H67-V/ RAM: Kingston DDR3 32GB/ Motherboard USB3.0 to NOS1a / PSU: Silentmaxx Fanless II/ no case and no case fans, NoFan 80 EH passive CPU cooler/ Music via LAN on HDD on MusicServerPC (desktop computer-W10)/ All music in WAV /Control on Ipad <-> Wifi <-> router <-> LAN <-> MusicServerPC <-> LAN <-> AudioPC.

01-10-2017: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM/ XXHE 2.07 Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/1/0 / Q1Factor = 10/ Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 10 (max 120)/ not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Peak Extend Off /Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback/ UnAttended / All Services Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : 43, 100, -, 1, 1/ Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Arc Prediction 16x / -> Lush USB-cable 70cm > Phasure NOS1a 75B *G3* DAC, Driver v1.0.4) (4ms)/ Output via Balanced Blaxius BNC Interlinks > Audio Analogue Maestro Balanced Monoblocks> speakers: Apogee Acoustics Scintilla (rebuild).
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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2017, 11:44:04 am »

Thank you, very interesting.

So is the conclusion justified that the benefits of a lpsu over a good fanless switching psu is not necessarily obvious? Of course depending on the pc processor, etc.?


Stanley

Hi,

my only logical explanation from what I'm hearing here is that the "HDPLEX 400W Hi-Fi DC-ATX Converter" seems to have a major impact.

Two years ago I used a laptop and replaced  the SPSU with a LPSU, and the SQ  enhanced obviously, and that is not happening now.

Joachim

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