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Author Topic: 2.09 sound quality  (Read 2419 times)
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briefremarks
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2017, 10:07:34 pm »

I had not planned initially on upgrading to 2.09, assuming that there were no benefits to SQ.  But after reading these posts, I did upgrade over the weekend and listened for a while (like the WHOLE weekend).  My impressions:

- The biggest difference for me initially is that the occasional ticks and scratches I heard with 2.07 and 2.08d after upgrading to G3 seem to be gone!  This in itself would be huge.
- More detail and separation.  There are fast note slurs (Pat Metheny and Jim Hall album for instance) that are more separated; drums (Kind of Blue brushes, etc.) more separated and real; and more solid image location.  I did have to more precisely measure distance from speakers than before 2.08d
- SPL seems louder at same volume settings; even at -36dB I can fill a pretty large room.
- Peter's latest Q settings and SFS seems to be an improvement; not 100% certain about this, but the sound is truly magnificent with these settings.

Ramesh
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2017, 12:03:10 pm »

Would it be possible that these factors which influence SQ in that way, could be adjusted by the user in a future release? I am thinking about a few more Q parameters.

Hi Richard,

I know people who'd offer me money if I take *out* a few Q parameters ! haha
But no, I don't think that will be possible or at least not soon.
But there is something else to offer ...

Luckily we still have members who explicitly explore things, and one of them is Colin (coliny). He was working on letting sound MQA acceptable and came up with something I never saw and also personally never ever tried. Nice software - it contains parameters and in 10 years of time I myself didn't try some combination yet. But Colin did :

Make Q1 very large but sustain the SFS at quite small. Tug this into the sauce named 2.09, et voliá.
Yesterday I listened to the always difficult Joe's Garage (Frank Zappa), planned to listen to The Yellow Shark as well, but never came to that because I was listening with open mouth to Joe's garage. And maybe it should be advised to listen to, because I suddenly hear so clear what the whole album is about. And don't I suddenly miss the "Advisory - Explicit Lyrics". So yes, that clear all suddenly is.

So Colin came up with a 14x40 (Q1/xQ1) for MQA with unknown SFS, and I made that 30x40 and SFS = 0.7.
And now it looks like we must re-do 10 or so years and find best settings again.
I think I can hear through that the Lush (USB cable) also contributes here. The highs receive some magic kind of spell in a fashion that I hear stereo imaging unheard before. It is almost like left/right interaction is manipulated.

I hope some more people can share their opinion on this one !

Peter

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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2017, 01:14:11 am »

Hi Peter,

I've only listened a little with SFS=0.7 and xQ1=40 and I'm am not really liking what I am hearing (Mark Knopfler - Privateering).  There is a bleaching happening especially around the brush strokes on the drum and mid vocal range.  In some ways the electric guitar strings are more real, but they too are bleached and missing some meat.

Anyway, early days, but I'll give it more of a go for a while and see what I think.

Cheers,

Anthony
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 08:03:44 am »

Well its got an open window in the treble which does seem to have a more natural sound. I think I've lost bass but perhaps its not gone but transformed into a better bass. More listening required. Gosh I would never have thought to try those settings. Inspires me to try settings.

As soon as I change to Hires files(24/44/96/192) problems emerge especially ticks. 16/44 no problems. Xx really struggles with some hires files(Early HDTracks) while others cruise through. Recent download hires files seem to be very good(from HD Tracks) even some 24/352 which sound amazing from where the Netherlands, Carmen Gomes sings the blues, Sound Liason Music.

No boot was caused by HDMI cable from audio computer to Oppo. Gosh new Oppo has caused some headaches.

Robert
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2017, 08:26:20 am »

Quote
I think I've lost bass but perhaps its not gone but transformed into a better bass.

You are usually right on your SQ judgments and allow me to grab the second half of that sentence.  Happy Yesterday I have been thinking a couple of times that I now seriously have too much bass and must do something about it. But quality of it is good and I will allow myself to get used to it a little, until people in the room start to complain. It also depends on how loud I play, and this setting does not allow to play as loud as I am used to (for volume setting I mean) because it is just louder. This seems to be caused by everything, especially the highs.

If you have problems with Highres now, this will be because of too much to read (from say disk) for the too low SFS. But also combined with this super high Q1 which, honestely, a long time ago did not want to play anyway. I recall 30x30 to be the highest possible, while now we do 30x40 and it works. This is a crazy long buffer somewhere which is all in the kernel of Windows and further out of my control, except for the necessity to match the SFS.
Btw, I set the SFS to 0.70 just to make it a little lower compared to the 0.90 I had. I don't even know whether I did it for a reason, but probebly to dial in the extreme of something which was never tried before. Btw, I played 24/96 with that yesterday (upsampled to 32/768), without an issue.

Regards and thank you for your feedback,
Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
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*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2017, 08:46:51 am »

Quote
I've only listened a little with SFS=0.7 and xQ1=40 and I'm am not really liking what I am hearing (Mark Knopfler - Privateering).  There is a bleaching happening especially around the brush strokes on the drum and mid vocal range.  In some ways the electric guitar strings are more real, but they too are bleached and missing some meat.

Hi Anthony,

A few things could be crucial here, but depending on your own settings. So let's see :

For us NOS1(a/G3) users, the buffer size in the NOS1 Driver Control Panel is suddenly a leading factor with this high Q1 (notice the 30x40, while you only mention the 40 (so 14x40 ?)). So this buffer plays a role in the same area as the Driver's buffer size (think of resonance) and I have that at 8ms. This has not been done explicitly by me, but it just is at that forever (for the maybe off reason that 8ms gives the most problems with the Phisolator, so I actually test this continuously).

If possible, more crucial is the fact that I use native Arc Prediction. Of course I can't tell for real, but I'd swear that your "bleach" was in my system just the same because the Custom Filter now seems to smear too much "white" into the sound. Actually this is Lush USB cable related, but alas, you are using that too. And if I don't use Arc Prediction, I now use the highest filter for 705600 (not the lowest which seems to worsen the "white").

By pure accident I yesterday played Tracks from Mark Knopfler, but in MQA incarnation. It sounded gread and especially "honest" and also full (say the opposite of bleach ?).

A thing I tried to pay special attention to is whether the distance between the now crazy bass (this really is so and of youn ask me caused by Arc Prediction) and the also crazy highs (I wonder where this stops) does not imply a hole in the mid. Regarding this I am psychologically influenced by 10074 which totally lack mid, but each time my attention is drawn to it, it is immediately overruled by a super strong voice. Yesterday I also heard a upper mid bass with the superb purring of an electric bass (if that still is the right term to use for the sound a cat produces when happy and warm), in a track I never heard that purring before. Because this is about very fast (mid) bass response, it tells me that this is all over good.
I guess it keeps on drawing my attention because of the already mentioned "bass player now brought his own amplification (which is the truth for an electric bass player) and thinking further it is all even more separated than it already was. No instruments interfere with each other BUT maybe it is more asy to perceive studio recordings now (this is a negative for net result).

Anthony, the key dial for you(r bleach sound) will be the SFS. Set it a bit higher and that tonality will change (I think).

Regards and you too, thank you for your trying and feedback.
Peter
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W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2017, 10:15:21 pm »

I had a listen using q1=30 q1x=40 and sfs around 1 today.

This is how it sounded compared to q1=7 , q1x=0 and sfs 1.8.

With the higher q settings.

Highs are smoother and less "etched" but i would say slighty smoothed or filtered. What makes me think this is that there is a small loss of detail.

Mids are tonally convincing but lack a small amount of dynamic impact. Guitars and electronic mid sounds can be very satisfying. Voices are smooth full and natural sounding but again I think the last gramms of detail whuch is not reproduced so well.

Lows are good, well damped and tunefull but extension is a little less and transient impact not quite as good.

Overall I do get a sense of a more balanced spectral resonse with the sense of an excited upper mid resonse being evened out very nicly  which is welcome, but as mentioned above this comes with small prices else where.


With the lower q settings

Highs are more detailed and contribute to the sound poping into the room, with better defined stage and slightly stronger dynamic. Comeing with the detail is a slight sense of hash and edge but I am being very picky on this point.

Upper mid vocals can, depending on the track, sound less tonally convincing with just a tiny amount of stridancy but do have very enjoyable presence. Lower voices are rich and very detailed, highlighting backing vocals and harmonys. Overall energy and dynamics are very enjoyable, coupled with the detail and seperation the music really has that in the room liveness.

Lows are similar in terms of damping but slightly more extended, have more weight and are definalty more tunefull. A clear favorite in terms of driving tracks forwards, giving a big grin factor to the music. Seperate amplifiers playing here too I think  Happy




Overall I am supprised that settings so far "off the dial" as it were can work so well. Despite the tendancy to be ever so slightly etched the low q settings have it for me, they just gets that much closer to live, with more of the fun and musical event comming across.

Asside from the Q settings, 2.09 is proving to be a real revolation , thank you very much again Peter sounds good !

Regards,

Nick.

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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 02:04:42 pm »

After some time, too much, I returned to find the sound I was looking for. I was playing with the position of the speakers but I knew that something else was missing. Thanks to the suggestions to change the Q settings and also to discover that the change of seat I had made was a bad issue I found the solution. It seems strange and it cost me to realize. I had always heard from an armchair with a backrest under the shoulders and it occurred to me to change this chair for one with a backrest that reached over the ears. That was really a bad idea. It may seem silly but the fact of returning to my usual seat with the backrest below the shoulders has given me the spatial and airy sound I had before.

More important has been the change of the Q settings. Now I use Q1: 15, xQ: 1. Q3: 0, Q4: 1, Q5: 0.

Q1: 15, xQ: 1 softens the sound a bit with respect to Q1: 14, xQ: 1. But the big improvement comes especially with the change from Q3: 1 to Q3: 0.  That, dramatically changes the bass making it deeper and more controlled.

Now SFS is 4.0 max: 120

In short, happy again.
Juan
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XXHighEnd: 2.09. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN/ KS:Phasure NOS1 Out 4.0/ #4 Engine/ Adaptive Mode/ Q1=30 Q3=1, Q4=1, Q5=1, xQ1=40/ Dev.Buffer: 4096/ ClockRes: 15ms/ Straight Contiguous/ SFS: 0,90 (max 120)/ Not Invert/ Phase Alignment Off/ Allow format change/ Decode HDCD/ Playerprio: Low/ ThreadPrio: Real Time/ Scheme: Core 3-5/ UnAttended/ Not Switch during Playback Off/ Playback Drive none/ UnAttended/ Include Garbage Collect/ Copy to XX Drive by standard/ Always clear Proxy before Playback/ Stop Desktop Services/ Stop Remaining Services/ Stop All Services: Off/ Keep LAN Services: On - Persist: Off/ Use Remote Desktop/ Minimize OS/ XTweaks : Balanced Load 43/ Nervous Rate 100/ Cool when Idle -/ Provide Stable Power 0/ Utilize Cores always 1/ Time Performance Index: Optimal / Time Stability: Stable / Custom Filter Highest 705600.

Music Server PC (W10) totally silent with OS (W10) in SSD and music inside in SSDs - RDC > Ethernet Gigabyte cable 3m > Audio Pc > 1m USB Lush cable directly from the USB3.0 in the motherboard > PHASURE NOS1a-75B-G3 (Driver v1.0.4) 8ms > Blaxius BNC interconnects > Genelec 1037B 3-Way Active speakers with BNC inputs
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2017, 05:18:39 pm »

Thank you for that, Juan !
And yes, such a chair (reflection right behind the ears) really makes a difference you would not want.

Kind regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2017, 07:29:52 pm »

During the last days I did some testing with different Q parameters and got amazing results.
The values I prefer now with release 2.09 are:
Q1: 14x40, Q3/Q4/Q5: 0/0/0, SFS: 0.7, Clockres: 1ms, Coustom Filter: High (2nd in the list).

I tested also with very high buffer 30x40 and got the same effect, Peter described above when listening Frank Zappa's "Jo's Garage": very detailed and clear sound.
But, other tracks with acoustic instruments, like e.g. Clark Terry's trumpet, sound too hard and harsh with these settings, it almost hurts. Using the AP filter smothes the sound pretty much, too much in most cases. Therefore I prefer the costom filter.

As I can see, all that is pretty different to other reports here. The reasons could be:
- I am using a tube preamp and tube amps (brand Ayon). I have to try it without the the preamp once more, what I didn't do since I received the 3G upgraded NOS1-a.
- My Lush is 3m long (I am the first and maybe still the only one using such a long Lush USB cable).

Peter, I believe I should try a shorter Lush just for a test. What do you think?
If this will bring a significant improvement I will have to regroup completly my hifi units.

Once again I have to state:
With 3G upgrade, release 3.09 and these new Q-settings SQ made such huge steps foreward, I could not have imagined before.

Kind regards
Richard
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 09:55:20 am »

Quote
- My Lush is 3m long (I am the first and maybe still the only one using such a long Lush USB cable).

Peter, I believe I should try a shorter Lush just for a test. What do you think?

There is one other out there of 3m and I don't have feedback from it.

What do I think ... that is difficult. As you know I had the idea already that 3m could be on the edge and I am glad it works in the first place. But how this works out for SQ I really can't tell (maybe I should have tried yours, but this is already difficult because of breaking in etc.).

In the far end I would not worry too much. Also see my next post (maybe posts).

Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2017, 11:10:38 am »

So here goes for my Sunday morning blah :

Maybe we must all look beyond where we normally look, because I don't understand myself by now, where this SQ comes from. It is just too crazy, suddenly.

Last night, track after track, I was and remained amazed of what's all squeezed out for bass, mid and highs, mixed with totally unrecognizable tracks which are so familiar, as if they are played through an other system in another room, or live by the artists themselves, for that matter.
I repeat : I don't understand myself how this emerges. UNLESS - but I did not explicitly check that - it is all because I switched off the OSD texts (not the Wallpaper Coverart itself). So among all my by now wildest settings changes, that OSD Text being off, is really the only common denominator.

Help.

The last two days I played with :
Q1 x xQ1 = 30x40.
Q3,4,5, = 1,1,1.
SFS = 20.
ClockRes = 15ms.
Custom Filter = Highest for 705600.
And just mentioning : Appointment Scheme = 3-5.
And thus OSD Text = Off. Wallpaper (front and back) On.

The OSD Text thing should not be underestimated, as it will do something to the OS itself but also to the Sound Engine which does not need to deal with it (in the loop of Playback, which is what it comes down to). Also :

I did NOT solve the issue of the Volume not working when no Wallpaper Covertart is used since 2.08, because exactly there the SQ change may be implied. So instead I offered the old means of (slow) volume change (with a .tst file, see Release Notes of 2.09).

Anyway, and I think you all may agree, the SQ change is so crazy, it is crazier than ever before. And where you guys may see the largest change between 2.08 and 2.09, for me this is way more difficult because somewhere between 2.08 and 2.09 I will have done something which I implemented on day X and which in aftermath is not recognizable (what it has been). So I G-D don't know myself !
It feels (also on behalf of you !) like "we" played with some setting just for trying, and now something popped in all of our systems. And now all is good (or at least changed vastly). IOW, no matter what settings you dial back into, the base of the SQ remains as it is.

The level of detail is inifinite.
The bass is infinitely loud.
The highs do not observe like wrong - they don't observe at all (brain has to time to observe).
And this gag remains for me : when I am sure the mids stay behind, something happens which shows the mids as the most profound ever.

I also keep on feeling that all "frequencies" are infinitely detached now. So maybe you reall me telling about the electric bass player and his own amplification (which always is true in real life) ... this now happens to everything. But meanwhile each shifted something like an octave in their own domain.
All things which can't be.

Quote
But, other tracks with acoustic instruments, like e.g. Clark Terry's trumpet, sound too hard and harsh with these settings,

So Yes Richard, these things happen as long as we can't find our "setting". This is very very tough to judge for real merit because who tells whether that Clark Terry is a decent recording ? I mean, man, if things change so wildly then we must re-learn to listen and this includes re-judge. But of course Clark Terry is fine (not that I ever heard of him) and so we wander for that other setting(s). Well, I just gave mine so maybe that helps you and others (but two days in only).

Quote
Q1: 14x40, Q3/Q4/Q5: 0/0/0, SFS: 0.7, Clockres: 1ms, Coustom Filter: High (2nd in the list).

As I can see, all that is pretty different to other reports here.

Richard, maybe not. I had the same for two (other) days with only the change of SFS to 0.9 and the highest custom or native Arc Prediction. This is not miles off from yours, so that really should have something, but also for sure not for all (and this is about the SFS of 0.7 or 0.9). So this could be the wildest stereo imaging effect, but if it does not work for all, then good bye (I forgot where it went wrong for me). The crucial general one is the 14x40 here, which is a kind of intuitive change because of how the dials present it, but anyway that for a base is not wrong at all.
And of course when I see that working, I overdo it with a 30x40 ...

That this 30x40 for "base" does not work out for everybody with descriptions as "bland" ... I tried to observe that and I think this could be about the same I just told about : highs ? what highs. And it could be the largest pitfall ever.
So yes, completely true, especially in retrospection it could be that the highs disappeared (sort of). However, just because I have my ever test signal music, I just know how much of highs there is, but now it looks like highs where highs must be. This may be related to my high sensitive mid/high of 118dB (which is also crazy of course) but the mentioned "infinite detail" - which btw is also about "detail where detail should be" can only spring from "perfectly rendered highs". In other words : it is also very unbelievable how no disturbing highs are present any more anywhere (someone told the same but I forgot who - maybe Nick) which somehow seem to give room for the not-fake detail and which very much includes the again "infinite" clarity which is suddenly there everywhere. Mind you, an album like Joe's Garage (Zappa) has always been a strange one regarding the highs and which always lacked fundament. Listen to it now. Ultimate clarity which ... now has fundament ? no, I don't think it is that what happend. But a boat load of hash disappeared (at least that is how it comes across to me).

The effetcs of the above should be encouraged for by the 30x40 of Q1 but with a quite special side effect : removing fake detail hence noise, now bringing forward what should remain (whatever that is). So, this is actually back to my hundreds of times expressed curiosity : The buffers should all be as large as possible and not as small as possible because the latter theoretically imply noisenoisenoise (and super much overhead). And for those with a pocket calculator : 30x40 = 1200 while 14x1 = 14. So something is more than 85 times quieter.
Previously we needed this "harpening" (same as with photos) to perceive sufficient detail, but while sharpening is done by adding noise, by now, everything in the environment improving, the sharpening expresses as noise. Remove that and the native sound remains.

Blahblahblahblah.
But I still don't know what happened, where.

Anyway, going this direction a kind of obviously also highered the CockRes (this one is dangerous because not really in the same realm, but for (less) overhead matters it should help) and what remains is the Driver Buffer size and don't I also recall a Kernel Streaming buffer size somewhere (I never touch that one and maybe it can't even be changed - I forgot). Of course we have a related XTweaks setting (the Nervous Rate) and the SFS itself at 20 should be high enough not to bother.

Most crucial could be the 30x40 which now even works (as I said earlier, I thought that it could not, ever back that is) which I could try to give a maximum of way more. We must of course be able to run into limits, right ?

Did I say Help ?

Peter



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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2017, 11:11:18 pm »

Hi Peter,

Yep...those settings are much, much better.  I had gone back to my old settings but in my short listening so far this morning my sound is superb and I do now think you are onto something.  I'll expand after I've had more time to listen. 

Cheers,

Anthony
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Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Buffer 4096 / Q1/3/4/5 = 14/1/1/1 / xQ1 = 1 / Processor Core Appointment Scheme = Core 1-3 / PlayerPrio = Low / ThreadPrio = RealTime / ClockRes = 1ms / Not Switch during playback = off / Xtweaks Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when idle = 1 / Provide stable power = 0 / Utilize cores always = 1 / Time Stability = Stable / Time Performance Index = Optimal / SFS 0.90MB Max 120MB / Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect = on / Start Playback during conversion = off / Do not start playback at all = off / Copy to XX-drive by standard = on / Always clear Proxy before Playback = on / Stop Remaining Desktop Services = on / Stop Desktop Services = on / Stop Remaining Services = on / Stop WASAPI Services = on / Stop W10 Services = off / Keep LAN Services = on / Persist = off / Use Remote Desktop = on/ Arc Predict / Minimize OS = on / Peak Extend = off / Unattended

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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2017, 09:03:20 am »

Peter, have you listened to any ACDC with the new settings?  Wow..
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XXHighEnd 2.09 RAM-OS (W14393 RAM)
Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Buffer 4096 / Q1/3/4/5 = 14/1/1/1 / xQ1 = 1 / Processor Core Appointment Scheme = Core 1-3 / PlayerPrio = Low / ThreadPrio = RealTime / ClockRes = 1ms / Not Switch during playback = off / Xtweaks Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when idle = 1 / Provide stable power = 0 / Utilize cores always = 1 / Time Stability = Stable / Time Performance Index = Optimal / SFS 0.90MB Max 120MB / Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect = on / Start Playback during conversion = off / Do not start playback at all = off / Copy to XX-drive by standard = on / Always clear Proxy before Playback = on / Stop Remaining Desktop Services = on / Stop Desktop Services = on / Stop Remaining Services = on / Stop WASAPI Services = on / Stop W10 Services = off / Keep LAN Services = on / Persist = off / Use Remote Desktop = on/ Arc Predict / Minimize OS = on / Peak Extend = off / Unattended

Audio Chain
Stealth MachII PC >> Lush USB 1.5m >> NOS1a G3 B75, Driver v1.0.4 (4ms) >> Placette Active Linestage >> 6 way active horn speakers (Single Ended Triodes)
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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2017, 09:07:36 am »

Quote
Peter, have you listened to any ACDC with the new settings?  Wow..

Not particularly with these settings, but maybe two weeks ago 3 tracks from my Demo Gallery passed by and I wondered where the nastyness had gone (ADDC is not always the most friendly). But since I was just playing music from a larger playlist, I forgot to revisit it. So I guess I need to now !

I expect guitars with a lot of air in them and with a 2 fold more fundament and even punch. More slick too. Am I right ?

Regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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