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Author Topic: XXHE stability issues ?  (Read 71 times)
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charliemb
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« on: November 11, 2017, 03:13:13 pm »

Hi Peter

I had this problem last night, for the first time in years.  Here's the rundown:

  • -2.07
  • -Minimized OS
  • -Unattended
  • -Ignore my sig settings.  I've been running 2.0x close to default settings to attempt better xxHE's reliability (which I'm sorry to report has not been good at all, sorry I've just not had the time to report on it)
  • -My normal way of playing is also to select several individual tracks and hit play, via click and ctrl-click or shift-click using a mouse.  This could be important.  And so I was doing this prior to this noise burst incident.
  • -I've been running with the start-playing-immediately setting because I've been using the AI filter a lot lately, and this setting is the only workable way of using AI. (AI is often best with an OS DAC.  This contradicts what I've written in the past, sorry, as of this date.  Oh,  and for this reason please keep supporting AI)
  • -Loaded a CD of classical music with about 15 tracks (Phillips Sleeping Beauty and full Nutcraker Suite if you have it, CD#2)
  • -I selected a single track part way into the CD, hit play.  xx then selected all of the remaining tracks and started playing
  • -About three tracks in, in the middle of a track or closer to the end but not the end, super loud burst of noise, louder than playback volume
  • -I soiled my pants
  • -Luckily I had the remote in my hand and quickly hit mute
  • -I then watched xx to see what it did:  It stopped playback all on its own, and came back to attended by itself. 
  • -I then rebooted computer, DAC, and unplugged/replugged USB cable on both ends several times and restarted everything else again with no problems.

Oddly, prior to the above incident last night, xx had been running without any problems.  Sadly, this is not the norm.  I normally get all kinds of unreliable behavior, for example, stopping playback after the first track in unattended, hitting play won't start playback (mouse),  the dreaded "This error should not happen please restart xxHighEnd,"  which keeps popping up as I try to shut xx down and interferes even with shutting it down because it closes the UI, etc.  But not last night.  Instead, I got the noise burst.
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July 2015   *=appear to be critical:
XXHighEnd PC (i7 3930K) Hyperthreading On (12 cores) underclocked to *2.5GHz*, 16GB, Windows 7 Ultimate64 SP1 on 2.5 SATA2 spinning disk, XX on 2.5 OS disk, music on 3.5 SATA3 7200 RPM.  Motherboard BIOS settings: BCLK = 100 MHz / Intel Speed Step = OFF / Max Clock Ratio = 25 / Allow OS to change ratio = OFF. 
XXHighEnd 2.01 Adaptive / Q1/3/4/5 = 6/1/1/1 / Q1x = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *60* (max 150) / Playerprio = Low (or below normal) / ThreadPrio = High / Core3-5 / *No Playback Drive* / *No RAMDISK* (the built-in one, have not tried IMdisk) / UnAttended / most services Off, WASAPI on  / Minimize OS / XTweaks set to v2.01 Defaults / *8x 384 Custom Filters* (High 23380 Hz)
DAC: 384KHz Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse set to default PCM Rolloff=FAST (the SLOW setting does not sufficiently filter out the noise shaping of the DAC), and no preamp
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 05:57:16 pm »

Hi Charlie,

Thank you very much for this extensive report.

You did not change Q or SFS settings recently ?

Did you find that message with "24 bit Crack Detect" on your screen somewhere, after playback had stopped ? If not, it is very probable that it was your DAC (or interface to it).

Let's also keep in mind that those who announced themselves (in this topic) have the issue with 2.08 or 2.09 and not prior to that (like 2.07). And even that possibly is not the reason because for me it is far more likely that it is the changed SFS (and more) settings people use since 2.08.

The reliability issues you have ... what to say. First off, there is totally nothing instable whatsoever. BUT, you use AI and it is for a reason I want to deprecate that. The way it works it just "unworkable" no matter you think it is. For example, you start playback, the conversion starts under the hood but you press Stop already. That conversion keeps on running though and when pressing play again, nothing will work any more. It is just an example of so many more problems in that (AI) area.
The least you should teach yourself is stopping the sound engine (Engine3.exe) before playback, which you can do by clicking at the blue led in the right hand border (it will go dark after that).

Kind regards and sorry about your pants !
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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charliemb
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 11:52:10 pm »

Hi Peter,

No I wasn't using AI last night at all. 
Further answers below:

You did not change Q or SFS settings recently ?


Much less for 2.07.  I tried leaving defaults as much as possible.  For example, I left Q1 at 14/1.  I didn't touch SFS.  But I did set "start playback".

Did you find that message with "24 bit Crack Detect" on your screen somewhere, after playback had stopped ? If not, it is very probable that it was your DAC (or interface to it).

No.  That is possible.  But it doesn't happen with HQplayer, which I use more frequently than xx now, due to the reliability issues.  Also, JRiver is flawless as well. 

Let's also keep in mind that those who announced themselves (in this topic) have the issue with 2.08 or 2.09 and not prior to that (like 2.07). And even that possibly is not the reason because for me it is far more likely that it is the changed SFS (and more) settings people use since 2.08.

I think my SFS is like 150 or 120.  Whatever the default is.

The reliability issues you have ... what to say. First off, there is totally nothing instable whatsoever. BUT, you use AI and it is for a reason I want to deprecate that. The way it works it just "unworkable" no matter you think it is. For example, you start playback, the conversion starts under the hood but you press Stop already. That conversion keeps on running though and when pressing play again, nothing will work any more. It is just an example of so many more problems in that (AI) area.
The least you should teach yourself is stopping the sound engine (Engine3.exe) before playback, which you can do by clicking at the blue led in the right hand border (it will go dark after that).

Yes I do that.  I use Kill as my stop button once xx starts acting up.  In fact, I was going to ask for a setting "stop button unloads xxEngine3.exe".  Possible? 
Otherwise it is a pain because the kill button is so far away and I use a logitech keyboard with a trackpad; quite painstaking to move long distances and back.

If others are not experiencing problems on a nightly basis then it must be something I'm doing or some settings combination.  It could be my PC.  But I doubt it.  It is an xxHighEnd PC spec PC.  Plus, I'm only getting back to xx now.  I've been using mostly HQPlayer for months without a single problem. 

So it is probably how I use xx in combination with my settings.  Or it could also be how xx interacts with my Wyred 4 Sound DAC in KS mode.  I wonder if going away from KS will restore reliability.   Hmmm,  for HQplayer I use ASIO I think.

I'm part of the problem because I've not asked for help.  Very little time these days.  Deep down,  xx is my favorite player.  I'd love to get back to it fully.  Today I installed 2.09.   

Kind regards and sorry about your pants !
Peter

All clean now!

Thanks Peter,

Charlie
Logged

July 2015   *=appear to be critical:
XXHighEnd PC (i7 3930K) Hyperthreading On (12 cores) underclocked to *2.5GHz*, 16GB, Windows 7 Ultimate64 SP1 on 2.5 SATA2 spinning disk, XX on 2.5 OS disk, music on 3.5 SATA3 7200 RPM.  Motherboard BIOS settings: BCLK = 100 MHz / Intel Speed Step = OFF / Max Clock Ratio = 25 / Allow OS to change ratio = OFF. 
XXHighEnd 2.01 Adaptive / Q1/3/4/5 = 6/1/1/1 / Q1x = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *60* (max 150) / Playerprio = Low (or below normal) / ThreadPrio = High / Core3-5 / *No Playback Drive* / *No RAMDISK* (the built-in one, have not tried IMdisk) / UnAttended / most services Off, WASAPI on  / Minimize OS / XTweaks set to v2.01 Defaults / *8x 384 Custom Filters* (High 23380 Hz)
DAC: 384KHz Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse set to default PCM Rolloff=FAST (the SLOW setting does not sufficiently filter out the noise shaping of the DAC), and no preamp
PeterSt
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 10:15:35 am »

(I moved this to a separate topic)

Charlie - a short and quite useless response just because I can't make up any longer (and correct me if I am wrong) :

I don't see how your responses to mine are relevant - but it is difficult to really see (through). You start out with "No, I wasn't using AI last night at all". This suggests that I stipulated that AI is causing the noise. I did not anywhere.

I do claim that AI is unusable for stability reasons, but you seem to avoid just that - or like to ignore it which is human.
You did not explain about "stability issues" outside of AI. I just can not make up what you are talking about now. This includes :

Quote
No.  That is possible.  But it doesn't happen with HQplayer,

Of course it doesn't because the message is from XXHighEnd. But in the end you respond to me telling about the DAC being a possible cause and *then* you say this ? now all is beyond me because it happened to you ONE time in a million years and besides all you are in the middle of a topic which is about 2.08/2.09 so you can't be talkin about the same issue anyway, if there is one anyway. Happy (but say there is one).

Quote
I think my SFS is like 150 or 120.  Whatever the default is.

It doesn't look good that you don't know this. And the default is whatever you set it to yourself (could be 3 years back).
For a new, fresh install the default is 2.00 I think (maybe 4.00, depending on how it was for 2.07 vs 2.08 or 2.09).

Quote
In fact, I was going to ask for a setting "stop button unloads xxEngine3.exe".  Possible?

Not really in combination with the Straight Contiguous Memory setting.

Quote
Otherwise it is a pain because the kill button is so far away and I use a logitech keyboard with a trackpad; quite painstaking to move long distances and back.

I use a tablet and drop my finger on the led.  Happy

Quote
So it is probably how I use xx in combination with my settings.  Or it could also be how xx interacts with my Wyred 4 Sound DAC in KS mode.  I wonder if going away from KS will restore reliability.   Hmmm,  for HQplayer I use ASIO I think.

Good thinking. HQPlayer does not support KS. But your descriptions too much lead to "inherently XXHighEnd" and a few pilot errors. But "pilot error" is easy to say for someone like me who just "knows" what not to do. Just saying !

Kind regards,
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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