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Author Topic: Interesting Q1 & .9U-2  (Read 15527 times)
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SeVeReD
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« on: March 02, 2008, 11:30:43 pm »

I just tried .9U-2 at -2 and it works!  A couple or 4 hehe versions back this setting would lock up... have to listen around this area more.  Still like 18 though.  I don't know if I could do this with .9T or .9U-1,,, haven't tried them.
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2008, 11:44:38 am »

Dito here... -2 was always someting that could not be done and was resulting in cracks.... Not anymore  Happy
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Januari 2017 XX 2.05
OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
PeterSt
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 11:53:40 am »

Huray for hocuspocus ! grazy

I can't be sure whether things go together, but at the numerous testing with the track end problems (as was reported yesterday) I *had* to play Attended and in the end I changed my signature ...
IOW with this, we can have the coincidental situation that the influence of XXHighEnd itself creates a good (jitter) signature.

What I perceive from it is a less stressed sound in the cymbals opposed to UnAttended. They got better again IMO.
Btw, an IMO good album to always incorporate in tests is Get Yer Ya Ya's Out from The Stones. This is a most flat dull sounding recording, which gets better and better with subsequent versions of XX.

Anyway, I wonder what our jitter geek(s) think(s) about the jitter at Attended playback ?
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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andy74
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2008, 12:28:38 pm »

give me a sec... Happy
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3. IBM thinkpad r52->VIsta Ult XXHE, Unattended playerprio=Nothing threadPrio=Normal -> very cheap usb audio adapter -> shure attenuator -> headphones shure 210 Happy
andy74
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2008, 01:01:09 pm »

Here is what I observed:

1. 9u-3 Attended plays a lot better. Another level of perfect for me. Really good
2. 9u-3 Unattended gives me that uneasy feeling again.
3 9u-2 Unattended/Attended same as 2. Although 9u-3 a bit better.

Actually the uneasy feeling was always there since 09.u with only exception for 24/192 DAC setting for my Juila card.
And now it's gone again with 0.9u-3 Attended on my other cheap device.

So Peter, what you sense when hearing 9u-3 attended vs Unattended corresponds to my my bad feeling I always talking about when something is wrong with the sound.
It would be great if this "mapping" is true in all cases and then you won't need a jitter geek to tell bad sound(jitter) from good.


Andrey
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1. USB FreeAgent 500Gb -> P4 2.8 2gb RAM Vista Ult  -> XXHE Q1=14 prio both = Normal -> esi juli@ (SPDIF is default device->analog mon in ESI panel->analog outs) -> nad 320BEE->Boston Acoustics cr150
3. IBM thinkpad r52->VIsta Ult XXHE, Unattended playerprio=Nothing threadPrio=Normal -> very cheap usb audio adapter -> shure attenuator -> headphones shure 210 Happy
PeterSt
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2008, 01:54:51 pm »

Thank you VERY much for your testing *and* special testing capabilities.

I guess I'm starting to learn Andrey. I think I already told you that I could sense what you meant at the first 0.9u version. Yesterday suddenly all was back to far more "normal" as how things came to me, and this is why it didn't take me long to "change my signature". It's a kind of a 10 second decision. Happy

Of course we now have the problem again that the sound is now superimposed by the player (XXHighEnd) instead of the real sound producer (XXEngine3) being able to do it alone. 0.9u-3 is a rather "full featured" version though, and the only near by functionalities to add are 176400/24 (and 16) / 192000/24 (and 16) playback. So, may something be destroyed for SQ in upcoming versions we can fall back to 0.9u-3 for a longer period I think (wasn't 0.7d such a long lasting version ?).

FYI : *Everything* (each line of code) which is changed is documented per date so I should always be able to go back. However, this is theory only, because when it is needed, I'd to eliminate functionality accordingly. As you know, this is why UnAttended Playback was introduced (the functionalities are in the player (XXHighEnd) only), but per 0.9u much was changed in the sound engine itself, due to the support of all the sample rates, bit depths, padding and all. The impact of that is as huge as we experienced, for the largest part for the better, but for that smaller part ... well, not.

Andrey, I am not a phychologist, but I tend to think that this time (with UnAttended) you are not sure that it is jitter causing the uneasiness. Just the way you speak about it tells me so. If I am right, would you be able to express what it actually is you sense, taking out jitter explicitly as a cause ?

What springs to my own mind is "sibilance". Sibilance of a same type all Class D amps show. Some very high frequency layer. Like a 2,4GHz clock influence. Hahaha.


I am not sure what further high schools it takes to work it all out, but the fact that some of you couldn't play the Q1 so low anymore without crackles, has never been solved really. I just did not do anything I am aware of, but it happened anyway. And now it's changed back INCLUDING a vast improvement of SQ. And mind you, my Q1 never left its -2 setting, so it's not a SQ change from changing the Q1 in my case.

Also, IIRC it can well be that the time that people started to report that Q1 didn't influence all that much anymore, is the same time that the Q1 couldn't be as low for many. On that matter here's a small prediction : from of now the Q1 influences as much as before again ?

swoon
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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andy74
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2008, 02:12:02 pm »

Hehe shrink huh?
Happy
Ok let's compare what I sense to what old people feel in their legs when the weather is about to change.

It's enough to have some minor injury in your body per say and it tells you when something is wrong.
It's like when you're healthy you just ignore minor pain it is all in your head, but when something starts to ache it will give new sensation. sixth seventh and so on. And you understand that it is not only your head where you dwell in.
Well it's funny Now but ....
And again it's nothing new.

You were asking for it. Happy

Please don't call a doctor...
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1. USB FreeAgent 500Gb -> P4 2.8 2gb RAM Vista Ult  -> XXHE Q1=14 prio both = Normal -> esi juli@ (SPDIF is default device->analog mon in ESI panel->analog outs) -> nad 320BEE->Boston Acoustics cr150
3. IBM thinkpad r52->VIsta Ult XXHE, Unattended playerprio=Nothing threadPrio=Normal -> very cheap usb audio adapter -> shure attenuator -> headphones shure 210 Happy
andy74
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2008, 02:17:54 pm »

Forgot about business

I think it related somehow to the threads interactions, or their priorities.
I for example don't like RealTime priority or something above Normal. It gives the same thing.
And my wild guess is it progress bar syncing with playing thread
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1. USB FreeAgent 500Gb -> P4 2.8 2gb RAM Vista Ult  -> XXHE Q1=14 prio both = Normal -> esi juli@ (SPDIF is default device->analog mon in ESI panel->analog outs) -> nad 320BEE->Boston Acoustics cr150
3. IBM thinkpad r52->VIsta Ult XXHE, Unattended playerprio=Nothing threadPrio=Normal -> very cheap usb audio adapter -> shure attenuator -> headphones shure 210 Happy
andy74
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 06:39:36 am »

To follow up.

Did anyone tried unchecking this checkbox "playback devices => you device properies => advanced tab => Give exclusive mode applications priority"
For me there was a noticeable difference when I unchecked it.

It made u-6 listenable for me again. The last version I could bear was u-3 with Attended.

I wonder if it would change the SQ for someone else.

Andrey
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1. USB FreeAgent 500Gb -> P4 2.8 2gb RAM Vista Ult  -> XXHE Q1=14 prio both = Normal -> esi juli@ (SPDIF is default device->analog mon in ESI panel->analog outs) -> nad 320BEE->Boston Acoustics cr150
3. IBM thinkpad r52->VIsta Ult XXHE, Unattended playerprio=Nothing threadPrio=Normal -> very cheap usb audio adapter -> shure attenuator -> headphones shure 210 Happy
PeterSt
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 08:34:51 am »

Hey Andrey,

Not that I could have made that up myself, but now knowing it, to me it seems a kind of logic that that influences sound. But, thinking of what will be happening in there, I can only say that if it indeed does change sound, it seems like a "bug" to me.
Think of something checking (right in the middle of sound playing) whether another (application) wants to come in, which it should do when Exclusive Mode applications have priority. BUT, this should count for Shared Mode apps, and not for the Exclusive Mode apps.
It is my conclusion that now you should be able to interrupt Exclusive Mode apps (hence XX playing) with some other sound.

a. I can be wrong on this;
b. If not, this doesn't seem right to me

The latter because I'd say that this should be about the start of producing Exclusive Mode sound which now won't kill a Shared Mode sound. Not the other way around, that an Exclusive Mode sound can be killed by a Shared Mode sound. But try it, I think it does with that checkbox unchecked.
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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andy74
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2008, 03:46:49 pm »

I don't understand. what should I try?
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1. USB FreeAgent 500Gb -> P4 2.8 2gb RAM Vista Ult  -> XXHE Q1=14 prio both = Normal -> esi juli@ (SPDIF is default device->analog mon in ESI panel->analog outs) -> nad 320BEE->Boston Acoustics cr150
3. IBM thinkpad r52->VIsta Ult XXHE, Unattended playerprio=Nothing threadPrio=Normal -> very cheap usb audio adapter -> shure attenuator -> headphones shure 210 Happy
SeVeReD
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2008, 04:06:01 pm »

I don't understand. what should I try?

Turn computer sounds on and see if you can make it "beep" while XXHE is playing?  i think
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
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