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Author Topic: Extending XXhighend upsampling to 1536kHz  (Read 253 times)
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Robert
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« on: August 04, 2019, 12:39:16 am »

Reading the new release of an upgraded NOS/OS Dac today which has this capability, I wondered about XX/Phasure running to this figure. Has it been tried?

Robert
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Intel I7, 4790k, 4/8 core, 32g ram, W10, Pro64, Ver 14393, No updates, Hyperthreading On @~800MHz, Bios settings adjusted
XXhighend Ver 2.10 Ram OS, Settings:Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *5* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *.69*  (max .69) / Disable Cracks Off / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-4 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ UnAttended / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Don't use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper Off / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Filter Arc Prediction
Music on LAN, Phasure Lush USB cable
Oppo 205 UDP Pre/Dac
Nordost Heimdall II interconnects, Nordost Heimdall II Power Cords, Audioquest power cords
Chriquet Active Electronic 2 way Crossover 80hz
Unity Audio Boulder MKI Active Monitors x 2, JLAudio 12 Subs x 2
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2019, 06:43:42 am »

Hi Robert,

It would be relatively easy to implement. However, that can only happen when I can test it. And that requires a physical (DAC) example.

Which DAC is that ?

Regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Robert
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2019, 11:09:58 am »

Hi Peter,
            https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2019/08/02/Product-Launch-ARES-II

I wasn't thinking of buying one but as its setup to take 1536khz, I wondered if you had tried this at some point in the past.

Robert
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Intel I7, 4790k, 4/8 core, 32g ram, W10, Pro64, Ver 14393, No updates, Hyperthreading On @~800MHz, Bios settings adjusted
XXhighend Ver 2.10 Ram OS, Settings:Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *5* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *.69*  (max .69) / Disable Cracks Off / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-4 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ UnAttended / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Don't use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper Off / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Filter Arc Prediction
Music on LAN, Phasure Lush USB cable
Oppo 205 UDP Pre/Dac
Nordost Heimdall II interconnects, Nordost Heimdall II Power Cords, Audioquest power cords
Chriquet Active Electronic 2 way Crossover 80hz
Unity Audio Boulder MKI Active Monitors x 2, JLAudio 12 Subs x 2
manisandher
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2019, 12:41:15 pm »

FWIW, I find 352.8/384 the sweet spot with the NOS1.

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.10 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=0.69 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5-cloned mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Mach II (with Nick's clock upgrade) -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a G3 -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
PeterSt
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2019, 01:42:06 pm »


Robert,

*If* you buy one, buy it through me; In that case I can make it work first (this is by guarantee, unless they lie about the specs).

Notice that I see something fishy in there, because each upsampling step requires 1 additional bit. So, 16 bits is the base (for Redbook). Then we go 2x, 4x, 8, 16 (that would be 705.6) and 32. This is 5 additional steps, with thus 16 bits at the base. Where to we end at ? 21 bits.
But the DAC is 20 bits only …

Having said *that*, I now see it fail in advance. I mean, XXHighEnd will be able to do the upsampling, but it will output in 24 or 32 bits, 21 bits really utilized, while the DAC will accept 20 bits only and thus messes up with the upsampling. It will still do 1411.2 Khz (or 1536 Khz), however.

And additionally : thinking of that, a 24 bits file would also be subject to the same anomaly, for a 24 bit DAC. But, there's a difference for the level where this occurs. Thus, the 24 bit is 24 dB lower than the 20bit, which is a lot - and actually too much to be audible. For 20 bits I am not so sure, especially because a DAC could resolve to 21 bits (the NOS1 does just over 23 bits, which is an exception).
Thus, it is also related to the resolvement, and once in the noise, it should not matter any more (as in : when upsampling from 24 bits requires a 25 bit but resolvement is to 23 bits (or less) anyway, then it can't matter).

The THD+N of 0.004% is an other figure which makes my "upsampling" theory quite moot. This is a bit harder to reason out (with math) but since the 0.00059% I see pass by over here is at a noise level of ~-140dB and distortion at -120dB, that headroom of 20dB implies just over 3 bits. With the notice that this is different from "resolvement", implying error in that same area can't be the best (thus, NOS1 resolves to 23 bits, but THD+N implies less than 21 bits - I am sure you can't follow).
Now, 0.004% will come down to 3 bits worse again (compared to mentioned 0.00059), thus "less than 21" turns into "less than 18".
Conclusion (kind of) : The 20 bit DAC already shows distortion at less than 18 bits, and thus implying more distortion beyond bit 20, is harmless.

Go for it.
Not that you need by any means. I just had fun in this bit of reasoning; I hope I didn't make too many mistakes.

Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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christoffe
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2019, 01:25:58 pm »

hi-fi plus, August 2019

* 01 - High Resolution.pdf (358.52 KB - downloaded 33 times.)
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