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Author Topic: Optical fibre cable vs Ethernet vs USB  (Read 314 times)
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arvind
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« on: November 20, 2020, 01:12:23 pm »

Hi Peter,

A number of my audiophile friends in India & abroad are switching over to Optical fibre cables in place of Ethernet or USB for “better” SQ. Most of them are raving about the improvement. In many cases it implies change in hardware where as in some cases it’s modification to the existing hardware.

Is there really any truth in this or is it just a gimmick?

Best regards,

Arvind
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W10-14393.0 RAM OS / Mach III LPS 14/28/XXHE 2.10c/Engine#4/Adaptive Mode/16x /Custom Filter/Q1= 30/1/1/1/xQ1=5/Device Buffer:4096/Invert Phase=On/Minimise OS/PE=off/Unattended/Stop All Services/SFS=0.69/140.19(max)/ClockRes= 15ms/Straight Contiguous/Music on NAS/Lush^2 USB cable A:B-W-Y-R; B: B-W-R/Phasure NOS 1a/75b/G3 USB DAC. Blaxius^2 A: B-R; B: B-R. Orelo MK II active speakers. Driver version 1.04/Driver Buffer 16ms. OSD text = Off
kennycologne
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2020, 05:21:51 pm »

Hi Peter,

A number of my audiophile friends in India & abroad are switching over to Optical fibre cables in place of Ethernet or USB for “better” SQ. Most of them are raving about the improvement. In many cases it implies change in hardware where as in some cases it’s modification to the existing hardware.

Is there really any truth in this or is it just a gimmick?


Best regards,

Arvind
Just a question. You have Lush 3. Do you think an optical cable would out perform it? I don't really know for sure, but I doubt it.

Admittedly, things change. So I could be wrong, but in the 90's when separate CD transports and DAC's were just becoming popular, I did a lot of experimenting with cables between the two. I never liked the optical back then, but then again this isn't the 90's is it? Or is the optical still the inferior connection in almost 2021?

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arvind
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2020, 06:40:30 pm »

Hi Kenny,

Valid question, however when I/we moved over to the Lush^2, we were all of the opinion that nothing could outperform it. Then came the Lush^3 & the Lush^2 is forgotten. Something to ponder....

Best regards,

Arvind
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W10-14393.0 RAM OS / Mach III LPS 14/28/XXHE 2.10c/Engine#4/Adaptive Mode/16x /Custom Filter/Q1= 30/1/1/1/xQ1=5/Device Buffer:4096/Invert Phase=On/Minimise OS/PE=off/Unattended/Stop All Services/SFS=0.69/140.19(max)/ClockRes= 15ms/Straight Contiguous/Music on NAS/Lush^2 USB cable A:B-W-Y-R; B: B-W-R/Phasure NOS 1a/75b/G3 USB DAC. Blaxius^2 A: B-R; B: B-R. Orelo MK II active speakers. Driver version 1.04/Driver Buffer 16ms. OSD text = Off
PeterSt
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 07:10:30 am »


Hi Arvind,

For Ethernet I can not tell.
For USB I can, as this was tried a long time ago and it sounded like sh*t. I tried it, and Nick tried it.

Generally, "glass" won't sound because of the extra processing required to convert from and to electrical. This processing adds more noise than it does good.

Maybe if you try today, things are different.

Personally I would only trust "ears" on this forum. You know how (and some time also who) we are ...

Best regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - April 1, 2020 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *20.69*  (max *20.69*) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 52 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering* *High 3.72%* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush^3*
A: B-Y-R, B: W-Y & R-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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PeterSt
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 04:20:18 pm »


Re: PC electrical isolation from DAC

Keep in mind that back in those days we had no form of galvanic isolation in the NOS1 (not in i2s and not in USB). This seems to make the result "worse" (see the posts behind the link).

That was also in the era that we could not perceive differences in USB cables (see Mani's post in there). This means that all round it (like the DAC, our speakers, general approaches, XXHighEnd, Operating System) improved so much, that today we here differences in "everything" - USB cables ahead (haha).

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - April 1, 2020 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *20.69*  (max *20.69*) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 52 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering* *High 3.72%* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush^3*
A: B-Y-R, B: W-Y & R-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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kennycologne
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 08:43:02 pm »

Hi Kenny,

Valid question, however when I/we moved over to the Lush^2, we were all of the opinion that nothing could outperform it. Then came the Lush^3 & the Lush^2 is forgotten. Something to ponder....

Best regards,

Arvind

There is always going to be someone who will come up with something better. The only one to come up with something that sounds better than Lush 3 will be Peter St. It won't be the competition, because the competition is way far behind Lush 2, let alone Lush 3.
Ill be honest here. The day I received Lush 3 is the same day I sold my Lush 2. I didn't even want to go back for one song. I became spoiled in one hour.

Trust me, I think your friends in India are just hearing something different that they enjoy, but not really better. After a while they will realize that, and come back to a non-optical connection.

Give me a good designed star quad any day. I use Hovland star quad interconnect (which is over 30 years old and still sounds awesome today) from DAC to speakers. I use ghentaudio star quad DC cable from Uptone LPS 1.2 power supply to ISO REGEN. The only optical connection in my house is between my television and my Wife's wireless headphone charger/connector. We watch TV in the bedroom and I fall a sleep before her. Good place for an optical since I don't listen to them.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 09:49:21 pm by kennycologne » Logged
PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2020, 05:28:17 pm »


Kenny, thank you for you kind words. But I am no St really. Happy

Quote
Give me a good designed star quad any day.

The XLR^2 is that ... haha

Regards,
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - April 1, 2020 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *20.69*  (max *20.69*) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 52 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering* *High 3.72%* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush^3*
A: B-Y-R, B: W-Y & R-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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kennycologne
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2020, 10:01:43 pm »


Kenny, thank you for you kind words. But I am no St really. Happy

Quote
Give me a good designed star quad any day.

The XLR^2 is that ... haha

Regards,
Peter

I've been eyeing that XLR^2 for a while now. I'm curious to hear them next to the 30 year old Hovlands. I love your grounding options. I have experienced the Hovland's in different grounding configurations. They were all soldered connections (or the lack of smile), but I'm with you on the huge differences heard in analog wire.

One day in 2021 you'll just see a pair added to my cart when my curiosity reaches its point of no return.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2020, 08:11:55 am »


Happy Happy
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - April 1, 2020 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *20.69*  (max *20.69*) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 52 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering* *High 3.72%* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> *Lush^3*
A: B-Y-R, B: W-Y & R-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
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