XXHighEnd - The Ultra HighEnd Audio Player
July 21, 2024, 09:43:19 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: August 6, 2017 : Phasure Webshop open ! Go to the Shop
Search current board structure only !!  
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30  All
  Print  
Author Topic: World's first NOS 24/384 filterless DAC  (Read 589161 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
AUDIODIDAKT
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 727

There's Nothing So Dated As Yesterdays Future


View Profile Email
« Reply #270 on: June 08, 2010, 04:24:36 pm »

Compliments to the Chef,

Quote
The DAC is galvanically isolated from the PC, and on that matter I would dare state that the PC can not make a difference.

So, WiFi, seperate videocard, overclocking are also allowed in the dedicated audio PC.
So no more power tweaking and such (CPU, RAM)

Wow, dedicated audio PC, is no longer a necessity, just get a fast PC.

Also a good thing for our American audio friends, is the "good" dollar-euro value. (0.83)
By the time your sales start the price will probably be even lower.

 drinks
Logged

(Sept 30, 2010)                                                
W7 Ultimate x64 Tweaked/60 GB SSD OCZ Vertex (1.50)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-EXTREME/Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz/OZC Reaper 2x2GB/
Esi Juli@ soundcard (KS)(x2v-v0_978)(Tweaked Coaxial)/Nvidea Geforce 9800 GTX+/750 Watt Zalman ZM-750-HP/100 MB Fiber-Optical Internet/
(XXHighEnd 0.9z-2)
#4Engine, Special Mode, 48 samples, SFS 12MB, DAP, Scheme=3, Q1=1, Q2/Q3/Q4/Q5=30,30,0,0, PlayerPrio=Low, ThreadPrio=Realtime
x-Allow Format Change, x-Stop Services, x-Copy to XX-drive by Standard, x-Start Engine3 During Conversion
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16840



View Profile Email
« Reply #271 on: June 08, 2010, 05:15:04 pm »

Hi Roy. Well, don't make the quotes out of context. Or at least I tried by best to state the opposite; As long as XXHighEnd keeps on influencing, it is my guess everything will. But, I also said the other stuff will be in the minority (hence overwhelmed by the DAC itself).

Now, this too is not completely true; once you have heard what it can do, a different XX setting immediately makes it less again. So, that doesn't differ from before. That this "less" still is 5 times better than my day before is another matter. So, in the end it is all about highering the bar, and what you don't know, well, you don't know (only your bar will be lower than could be, but it still will be 5 meters about the before world record).

If I only could stop XX influencing ...
(what a world)

Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
Marcin_gps
Audio Enthusiast
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 455


View Profile
« Reply #272 on: June 08, 2010, 06:05:59 pm »

Compliments to the Chef,

Quote
The DAC is galvanically isolated from the PC, and on that matter I would dare state that the PC can not make a difference.

So, WiFi, seperate videocard, overclocking are also allowed in the dedicated audio PC.
So no more power tweaking and such (CPU, RAM)

Wow, dedicated audio PC, is no longer a necessity, just get a fast PC.

I hardly believe it. My M-Audio Transit (TAS1020B) also gives galvanic isolation and I couldn't stand the sound until I made all the tweaks and undervolting/underclocking. But the Transit is fed by USB power... I haven't got any firewire device so far, but I know that for USB, the PC's power/noise will affect SQ even when you spend money for a fancy transport like ART Legato with separate power. The only way to virtually eliminate computer's negative impact on DAC is to cut the power leg from USB, but sometimes it's required for a receiver to operate. My question for you Peter is: does NOS1 feed 30V from firewire on PC's side?
Logged
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16840



View Profile Email
« Reply #273 on: June 08, 2010, 06:17:00 pm »

Why should it, if no Firewire is in there. Hahahaha

But to answer your question hopefully more satisfactory : it is completely self contained for the power supply (supplies). And no, not by means of a switched brick whatever. Lowest ripple possible.

Btw, I agree with your last post, if that wasn't clear in the first place.
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
AUDIODIDAKT
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 727

There's Nothing So Dated As Yesterdays Future


View Profile Email
« Reply #274 on: June 08, 2010, 06:53:40 pm »

Sorry for the confusion of my last post,

It was ment as a question not as a statement. (how would i know, anyway ?)

But i totally believe you on:
Quote
Now, today it is again so drastically better compared to what I was used to two days ago, that now *I* don't care at all. Let's say the "so much better" just overrules everything and all.


Compared to different cables, capacitors and so on.
But still minor changes in software can have drastic effect on SQ, for eg. 48 vs 1024 samples.

The whole project of xx was like this, its not a little better or worse with every version, its totally different each time a new version is
launched.
This can be hard sometimes, as in what is the "Reference" (my reference got lost a long time ago)
I am still amazed how this can sound so different each time.
Try to explain this to the simple minded people, who say its just ones and zero's (I remember a discussion with someone, a couple of years ago)

But I really enjoy the whole learning curve into achieving better sound.

Houdoe
Logged

(Sept 30, 2010)                                                
W7 Ultimate x64 Tweaked/60 GB SSD OCZ Vertex (1.50)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-EXTREME/Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz/OZC Reaper 2x2GB/
Esi Juli@ soundcard (KS)(x2v-v0_978)(Tweaked Coaxial)/Nvidea Geforce 9800 GTX+/750 Watt Zalman ZM-750-HP/100 MB Fiber-Optical Internet/
(XXHighEnd 0.9z-2)
#4Engine, Special Mode, 48 samples, SFS 12MB, DAP, Scheme=3, Q1=1, Q2/Q3/Q4/Q5=30,30,0,0, PlayerPrio=Low, ThreadPrio=Realtime
x-Allow Format Change, x-Stop Services, x-Copy to XX-drive by Standard, x-Start Engine3 During Conversion
Telstar
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 732


View Profile
« Reply #275 on: June 09, 2010, 12:31:17 pm »

Quote
The DAC is galvanically isolated from the PC, and on that matter I would dare state that the PC can not make a difference.

So, WiFi, seperate videocard, overclocking are also allowed in the dedicated audio PC.
So no more power tweaking and such (CPU, RAM)

Wow, dedicated audio PC, is no longer a necessity, just get a fast PC.

No, or better ni.
1) Wi-Fi contaminates the AIR and all electronics are subject to the dangerous RFI and EMI. We cannot do a sh*t, but shield every piece of equipment very well.
Why? Because unless you live in an isolated, very isolated villa, you'll have already a few wi-fi networks hanging on you. Try with any modem or smartphone. My iphone picks up an average of 2-4 from my neighbors.
So the recommendation of Peter to avoid it only apply if you dont have it already. Otherwise, I dont see other solution than shield every piece of electronic gear in a thick mu-metal cage.

2) Non dedicated PC - I think Peter answered you on this. Various processes can still influence xxhe, that is the sound, so best to avoid. But the computer can be fast, as long as fanless and EMI/RFI controlled (note that Peter has his computer FAR from the DAC and his system, AFAI Remember).

3) PC PSU. Here instead special care to the computer power source ***should*** NOT be needed anymore, when using the NOS1, with its special interface.
But, what is needed is a filter to block the noise FROM the PC psu and any other switching equipment that is connected to the same power line (I mean line not plug) to protect the OTHER electronics in picking it up, namely the amplifiers (the NOS1 seem to have an excellent PSRR by itself)
I'm going to build such filter for about 300W power, single rail and 6 plugs. It'll be open source/diy.
At this regard if someone can source the fabric used by Furutech to absorb EMI/RFI, it would be a nice addition.
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
Telstar
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 732


View Profile
« Reply #276 on: June 09, 2010, 04:35:47 pm »

The DAC now outputs 1.5VRMS (this is around 2V peak-peak, see later). The before best sounding version had an output of 324mVRMS. Notice that times 2 (6dB) this is 648 and again times 2 (another 6dB) this is 1300;
With the before 324VRMS I played this Made in Japan album at -12dB(FS) or so. In fact the maximum level without expecting complaints from the family (and which level is already shouting in eachother's ear when something must be said). Yesterday I played the album at -10.5dB, which means some 14dB louder as usual. 14dB is a LOT ...
(...)
The only thing I can think of is the official math laying in squares versus sines. So, if I output, say, 1Vp-p in squares, this will be 1 VRMS as well. Notice that "VRMS" is the average output voltage, and p-p (peak-peak) is the output voltage you would measure with a multi meter. Now, a square will always be at the peaks (horizontal line), whereas the sine only reaches the peak for one moment in the wave cycle and then drops back. The relation between a sine and its average voltage output is 1.414. In other words, 1Vp-p output = 1/1.414 = 0.7V.
So my gut feeling tells me that something like "before all was far too squary, and now it's nice sines" is going on. But it sure is audible, whatever it is.

Ahem... my engineers made me notice that vRMS is half of the p-p value (but i dont exactly understand why).
So my question is: did you measure the peak to peak tension or directly RMS (my multimeter can do that) and calculated the other?
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16840



View Profile Email
« Reply #277 on: June 09, 2010, 06:19:48 pm »

Uhoh, better be careful what your engineer is going to make for you ! Happy Happy

Draw a sine (or let a program do it, so it will be a real sine). Then imagine the average voltage coming from it. Where it crosses zero, it is zero. Where it is at the peak, it is "peak" (what the multi meter measures). Would you say the average (above zero) is half of the peak ? I don't think so ...

Anyway, the RMS comes from the analyser (the 10K multimeter Happy).

Btw, for clarification, I saw that I wrote this :

"1Vp-p output = 1/1.414 = 0.7V"

which should have been

"1Vp-p output = 1/1.414 = 0.7VRMS"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square

Look below, this gives 1.41421356237


* RMS01.png (2.81 KB, 430x79 - viewed 3252 times.)
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
Telstar
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 732


View Profile
« Reply #278 on: June 09, 2010, 06:42:05 pm »

Btw, for clarification, I saw that I wrote this :

"1Vp-p output = 1/1.414 = 0.7V"

which should have been

"1Vp-p output = 1/1.414 = 0.7VRMS"

I think the misunderstanding lies in the difference between peak voltage and peak to peak voltage, which are not the same thing (although i still dont understand why). So I believe that you measured or calculated the peak voltage, in which case to use the squareroot of 2 divider is correct.

What matters for me to match the sensitivity is the vRMS (taken with sinewaves) Happy
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
Telstar
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 732


View Profile
« Reply #279 on: June 09, 2010, 06:51:27 pm »

See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude

Exactly, in your attachment there's the formula for peak to RMS.


* amplitude.png (9.13 KB, 309x365 - viewed 3287 times.)
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16840



View Profile Email
« Reply #280 on: June 09, 2010, 07:45:52 pm »

Someone must make a mistake here. It is allright if that is me. Happy

I only now understand your message "VRMS is half of p-p" which at first to me looked like "when V = 2, VRMS = 1". So never mind my previous post.

Fact is that 1.5VRMS = ~4Vp-p (and I said 2 in my earlier post -> WRONG).

So yes, I calculated the p-p (wrongly) but measured the RMS -> 1.5.

Sorry for accusing your engineer. I stand corrected !
Peter


* RMS02.png (2.74 KB, 386x27 - viewed 3215 times.)
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
Telstar
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 732


View Profile
« Reply #281 on: June 09, 2010, 08:27:48 pm »

So yes, I calculated the p-p (wrongly) but measured the RMS -> 1.5.

This is what matters in the end Happy


Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16840



View Profile Email
« Reply #282 on: June 30, 2010, 10:58:03 am »

Here is another status update ...

First of all, the parts I was waiting for, I am still waiting for. They are over due already, and day before yesterday I heard that they will be shipped July 16 now. Assumed that will be true, with another week of shipping time the first DACs should be ready for shipping near the end of July. If I'm only ready for the administrative side of things (never got around that anymore, so far).
So, I guess we are really almost there now !

In the mean time, again the additional throughput time has been the most fruitful;

A few weeks back the latest version of the DAC board was received, and only last week I got around to integrating the CPLD logic (made at a distance of which I told about I think) with the XXHighEnd logic, both providing the special 384/768 mode. And, after 2 days of work on the XXHighEnd side, I can say that it all works above expectations. Above ? how ?

On a side note : The whole technical and electrical idea behind this was created November-December last year (2009), and while this implied a complete new design of the DAC (board), while that was produced I got some other ideas that could nicely combine. And, now really having that DAC board, forced by some technical problems in the 768 area I again got some other idea. All the (three) ideas could combine into one solution, and that is what I have been listening to for the last two days ...

Let me start at the end, and an actual by now rather common story : yesterday I played one of the albums we run almost weekly for explicit testing, and I asked my wife "do you know what this is ?". Allright, you know the answer ... she did not.
What the heck happened this time ?

This time it is all about jitter. 3 folded.

1.
By means of a plain dirty trick, I was able to decrease the phase noise to -128dBc @ 100Hz. Very very good is -110dBc, and much more common is -60dBc. Mind you, this is for 100Hz, a common measurement point for phase noise. Also, jitter is the most audible in the lower frequencies, or better : it is the most applicable to the lower frequencies (something like : the longer the wave, the more time there is to notice fluctuations).
The trick comprises of a technical application, and the figure is derived from the base specs from the oscillators I use.

2.
By means of a "logical thinking" trick I reduced the jitter by another factor 2 (but think in dB, which would be 6). This makes use of available headroom when the 768 input is NOT used. Hahaha.
Like I said in the above, forced by technical problems in the 768KHz area (which is ~25MHz at the bit level and which operates outside of chips in my case) I thought to trade the (thus far) unuseable headroom for better jitter specs. And at this moment I think I don't even want the 768 input to operate anymore, because what is gained by (whatever it is) I applied is much much more powerful then shifting away high ferquencies further (and remember, 384 (352.8 ) was enough for that already). But, if 768 gets to work afterall, it is just a choice in XXHighEnd.

3.
Last but not least at all, something completely new, and let me be the inventor of it. I am not sure yet how it works or what "influence" is eliminated, but I tend to call it interchannel jitter;
We all know about the good merits of separating analogue devices like mono blocks instead of one stereo amplifier, separate PSUs for the separate channels or even separate DACs for the channels (inherently present at the chip level for the Phasure NOS1), but I found that there is also an "opportunity" at the plain digital level, where nothing in that path is routed to one channel anymore. The effect of this should be equal jitter for both channels. Or at least the way I set it up, should have that effect.
Huh ? Huh !?

Sound wise ...

Let us start with the latter ... interchannel jitter.
It is the most drastical sound change I ever met in any of the steps I ever applied, might it be in my younger days, or just the "XXHighEnd years".
It implies a channel "separation" in a dimension we didn't know it was there. So, there is channel separation, and when measured it can be 80 or 90dB or whatever figure we know it is inaudible. Or, when you listen to a really hard panned guitar from the left speaker and just can not hear it from the right speaker, well, that is good channel separation, and generally we are not worried we are bothered by it. It is too inaudible.
Now, in the above I put "separation" between quotes, because it is just about the opposite : channel integration. Huh !?Huh !?
Let's keep in mind that I dedicated this phenomenon to what I perceive myself, and maybe there's a more official/known phenomenon for it. But now let's try to explain :

Let's first assume and aknowledge the audibility of jitter. I, or I think I can well say "we" don't care about low jitter specs of a device, and as long as XXHighEnd can influence *and* assumed that the carrier of this can be jitter only, we hear jitter. Oh yeah, we hear it very very well (the differences).
Now suppose that the differences we can create with XXHighEnd would be there between the left and right channel. That would be a quite messy sound, a bit depending on the extremes you found in XXHighEnd settings. Now go one step further, and let's learn that those differences just *are* there;
Also good to recognize is that we aren't used otherwise. It is all normal for us, because no tool was available to tweak that difference. The only thing fair to say (without real scientific knowledge) is that when the general jitter level is very low, the differences between left and right are also very low (and the other way around).
Now, what I did, was 100% elminate that difference between left and right, meaning : The jitter is still there (that assumed), but however it exhibits, it does this the same in the left and the right channel, and this is at the sample level. The audible effect ?

A so super full warm sound that you really can not imagine it is coming from the same speakers and amplifiers.
Yesterday I was explicitly listening for what to write in this description, but I can't describe it in a technical fashion. Oh, I could say that you will have the perception of a wider sound stage, but it is not that. Physically (for dimensions) is it not that. But there is a stage full of sound, instead 5 microphones at 5 places. There is totally no sterility left. It feels like how it was real, at the performance. It is also not like a mouth has become too big or something, but merely a far more exact projection of a small mouth which can't sound small at the distance you listen.
Let's take one of my albums I always try after a bigger change. Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out! from The Stones. Do you have it ? well, put it on now;
I think I talked before about the improvements achieved on this album, and that it is actually completely flat far away sounding. It will have vastly improved, but still, if you compare it with other good recordings, no, this is not it.
But now ? man, you would bet 10 million that I had a unique very well done remaster. There is completely *nothing* left of the flatness, and I even imagined Charly Watts to look happy, and applying variations I never saw him do in clips.

Btw, yes, I watched carefully whether the focus on voices or instruments was still there as should (instead of DSP-not).

Allright, on to the next two jitter subjects, far more normal.
Ehh ...
This is what makes your albums (again) unrecognizeable. In the end it is (at least to me) a very strange thing. Although I must admit that along the line the mids again came somewhat more forward - which has its own merits -, this time all kind of melody lines come forward, never heard before. It can be bass, it can be by background bells, it can be a far away guitar, but it is always about a melody line. Well, you can imagine that if you were used to listen to a track with a certain melody (whatever that was) and suddenly the melody changes because another line comes forward, well, your track sounds different up to unrecognizeable.
Part of it is created because of more energy which comes forward most in bass instruments. But it is also about "sub harmonics" (which don't exist) forming an attack layer for the particular instrument and even voice. To make this clear I better refer to drum veils and their attack. This was already very good, but got better again. There's more warmth under it now (the so called sub haronics).

Here's another example : Faith from George Michael. I mention this one, because it occurred to me that it wouldn't work as I wanted before. You could also say that I didn't get the feelings with it, I recalled from when being a tad younger, women involved. It was too sterile and had no slam. It didn't have the power the tough guy on the cover expresses, no matter how gay he is.
Well, you saw it coming ... now it works. But wait, what does that mean ?
Throughout the album a bass is used which really does the job on all of the tracks. It should be the most profound of all, and it should incorporate the synth created vibes in the mean time. So, very very powerful, but at keeping those vibes audible. That it goes along with the super duper warmth from the former subject is another matter, but together with those most hard drum rythm slams it draws tears (yes, it did). So, it is the combination at work here. It *is* a super tough setup album, but it *is* sung by a gay guy with gay warmth.
Without the slam the combination isn't there, and it's only one of those dozens of two gays behind a keyboard guys with women voices.

Wow, you really can't imagine what can happen when all has come together. I tried some of the Shulman albums, which is ambient and only 10 minute or longer tracks. I know so well how boring it actually is, because it is not only 10 minutes of the same, but a whole album of the same. Still I like it for a kind of background louder music (hehe ambient eh). But today ? today I can't stop from being attrackted to each of those seconds, the album throughout. It is one big pile of intelligent detail harmonically formed into a story you are sucked into.

Ok, unless 768 brings something additional, I'm done;
The Phasure NOS1 now works for all types of music, and I wouldn't know what to do further. It should be the best on the globe.

Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
Gerard
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1077


WWG1WGA


View Profile
« Reply #283 on: June 30, 2010, 01:43:44 pm »

Man what a fantastic story this is!!!  Too much  Happy
Logged

Januari 2017 XX 2.05
OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
Marcin_gps
Audio Enthusiast
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 455


View Profile
« Reply #284 on: June 30, 2010, 01:51:02 pm »

Looking forward to "official" photos of ready-to-ship product.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.163 seconds with 20 queries.