Short interruptions in playback en very tiny hickups since y3 and y4

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter ,

Since the last two versions I had a lot of sound-interruptions. Playing stopped regularly for one to sometimes eight seconds. Sometimes more than once per track.
After fiddling around with the settings, I invented that it stopped after having unchecked :"running time OSD." and "OSD text".
The only things ,I think until now, that have left are very tiny hickups.  On an irregular and rare base. Must say very small. I could maybe live with it and it could be possibly corrupted files!
Hope this information is of any use for you,
Ed

[PeterSt]

Hi Ed,

Yea, I think I start to recognize this from other reports, and it should be solved by using Core Appointment Scheme 3. It is not my intention to use the Appointment Schemes for that (but merely to choose the best sound), so it is not the way to go. But can you try this please (or maybe you did already) and let me know the results ? (and of course reinstall te OSD stuff).
If it helps I must be able to solve this.

Btw, you do switch off those Services right ? (at this moment I'm not even sure whether you can use the OSD things without shutting them off, but it really is necessary to do to).


No ticks should be there whatsoever. So let's hunt that too. If you have normal wav files, the Glitch function (under Analyse -> rightclick the track in the Playlist Area or otherwise (similar) in the Library Area for a whole album) may show you "glitches". If not, the track should be fine. Notice that right now this only works for wav files (not flac etc.).

If you have an example, you could try "Copy to XX drive" and see whether it brings a difference (I'm talking about the small ticks here).

You may also higher your Q1 a bit (like to 8 ) and see whether that makes a difference. For sure when you are using USB it may (can't tell that from you sig right now).

By the time you know more ... let me know.
Peter

[PeterSt]

Ed - One more thing : I think you just started using the PCI interface while before you used USB. PCI is much more prone to small ticks. So, if you are at all saying that the small ticks are since the last version I think they can have been always there for you, if you had only used PCI always. And keep in mind your Mini ITX ... (theoreetically being more difficult to begin with)

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your thoughts!
My other pc , still on Vista, gives the same problems. It was the main reason to make a totally new setup on a different comp. Although I didn't look for solutions until now.
For y3 and 4 I did not use my nos-dac since I can't work on higher res. than 16/44(48). The NOS-dac is the USB dddac from Doede.(36dacs in parallel, battery powered).
I dont use it for the moment.
The other computer, on Vista, Works with a PCI-card as well. The Prodigy HD2. 24/192 too.
On the W7 computer program and music in not on the same disc anymore. To seperate discs on resp. sata 0 and 1.
Yes, I tried changing Core app. too, without succes. I did switch Services off.(checked) Problems exist on both Attended and Unattended. And No, I don't remember any ticks or stops of the same kind on older versions.
Btw, I experienced one( only one) more halt of half a second for the last listening hours since Yesterday!
This for now, try to find out more,
Thanks again Peter, for now I have to sit down and undergo: " XXMusical treatment", with capital TREAT!
Bye for now,

Ed

[PeterSt]

Thanks for your thoughts!

Yeah. Glad to be of so much help.
Not.

Ed, if you are not 100% sure this was on 0.9y-3 also, I may have another reason for this. Please let me know if you are (or not).


Then, I am not sure if you are saying that it was with the DDDac as well. If you never tried (with these later versions) you might. Not to solve it, but to give me some additional thinking.

Lastly, if you still can find some regularity in the ticks, try to lower your "Split file at size" by half of what you currently have. If it starts to happen twice as much (or a change in general), let me know.

I don't know anything else at this moment.
Peter

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,
Update.....
Unfortunately I had some more halts from about one second during the last hour.
My music is stored in FLAC.
Gr,

Ed

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,
Yes, I had it (the stops) on my Vista PC on Y3. Ididn't have Y4 on it! I took it apart for that reason..
My Vista PC is momentarely spread in parts all over my table. I am looking for solutions first on my W7 thing. If that one will not end up working properly think about building a faster computer, again mini-ITX(I like the size)with a Pentium Core2 duo 7000 or 8000 line.
Although I am affraid not to get it cooled without a lot of fuzz! Passive cooling can be perfecly done with the Atoms.
BUT, it has always worked flawlessly soundwise, though a bit slowish, and I was happy with that.
I toggled with split file size without succes.
I did not have the stops with the dddac, I used that one before the Y versions.
We just move on..

Ed

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter ,

I went a lot further with the : "split file" setting.
Put it on 75! I had only played with settings between 100 and 200.
I think it is a solution for me.(until now?)
I checked running time OSD text and OSD text again and it still works. No stops for about a whole hour! And what about ticks? I am not shure yet.
I keep you informed,

Ed

[ed linssen]

Peter,

I am sorry, it is still there, the stopping, even at setting 50mb.
We move on..

ED

[PeterSt]

Must be something very weird ...
Or at least something I completely overlook.



I'll grab a beer here. I may help ...

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

Keep your beer in the fridge for the coming four hours or so.
Dont ruin your brains by thinking about stops or glitches!
I think I am getting warm by having changed my priority settings from low to below normal and from realtime to high.
Went with split setting back to 125. 75 was not the solution afterall.
Life goes on...

Nice Sunday evening and thanks again for the effort,

Ed

[PeterSt]

I just came back here to ask you to do the other way around. But you apparently already did ...

My psychological problem is : I recognize it all, but the things which helped me I already told you.

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

The problem , halts (half- to five and more seconds) in the middle of tracks, is still there. It happens on a very irregular base, sometimes one halt per track, another time three or four stops. It is very random.
I would however advice you not to bother anymore, i'll just wait for y5, and see what happens then.
Somehow I feel it will solve itselves.

Thanks so far,

Ed


 

[PeterSt]

Your feelings are better than mine Ed. But I will try something ...

Thanks for the confidence ... and your patience !

[PeterSt]

Ed,

Something is wrong;
In the current version there's a bug that re-assigns the Core Appointment wrongly when only one core is available. This happens at the exact moments you describe. The program should die on that when only one core is available. And as far as I know the Atom has one core only ...

Besides this, with one core I don't think the things can be done which are needed (and indeed this is CoverArt-OSD related !), unless the processor is very powerful ... which it is not.
Also, indeed in this area things have changed, but at this moment I am not sure whether this was at 0.9y-3 or a version (or two) earlier.

In the end this is all about the CoverArt Wallpaper re-showing at the exact right moment, which it did not with 0.9x (etc.). There the change came too soon. Now, what I described elsewhere, is that there is a bug in at least Vista (most probably in W7 just the same) that changes the priority (in this case to "low" -> the PlayerPrio setting) in the calling process, where it is actually the called process doing that to itself. I avoided that to a certain extend, but I guess in your situation (poor processor) this is not enough.

I can look at this again whether it can be improved, but I guess the real solution is an option (parameter setting) that lets it work the old (0.9x) way. But on the other hand :

When you say this happens in the middle of tracks just the same, to me it looks that this can not be OSD related, and besides it is unrelated to Wallpaper changes. Also, I don't think you confirmed my below quesion :

Lastly, if you still can find some regularity in the ticks, try to lower your "Split file at size" by half of what you currently have. If it starts to happen twice as much (or a change in general), let me know.

and

I toggled with split file size without succes.

And if this really has no relation in your eyes, I am afraid you have to examine the PC for doing things it shouldn't. You may do this :

Use Arc Prediction and Double (or Quattro if you can), and set the Split file size to 120. Set the Wallpaper and OSD stuff On. Set Start Engine3 during conversion to On. Set the Core Appointment to 3, PlayerPrio to the lowest, ThreadPrio to Realtime. Load an album with tracks lasting 3 minutes at least (try to avoid over 10 minute tracks), use UNattended, press play at the first track and :

1. Tell me the length of the first track and after how many seconds audible playback starts after pressing Play;
2. Tell me how far the highlighted tracks are when playback starts to be audible (at the third, the 5th, all gone, etc.);
3. If gaps in playback occur at the beginning, tell me what you see happening on the screen related to that (you could say : gaps occur until the OSD shows in full (wallpaper, text, running time);
3. When everything is at rest, watch the disk light; Tell me once per how many seconds you see it lit for a longer time like 1 sec. at least, and how long the litting lasts per time. Notice the litting should be perfectly regular, like once per 48 seconds;
4. In the mean time with 3, try to make a relation with gaps occurring, and the disk light; An answer could be : always a gap 2 seconds after the disklight stopped being lit.
5. Tell me whether you see other disk activities in between the larger regular "bursts" and try to indicate their length or heavyness. Of course again try to relate that to the gaps.

and when you are listening for gaps anyway, in the mean time you may notice ticks and see *their* relation to things.

You may have better things to do, and I am not sure yet what I can do with your information, but I guess something comes from it, up to seeing what I do wrong in the program. Please keep in mind : the program can be wrong all the time, but someone like me will never see it because of a too powerful processor. This is all the most delicate stuff and things are driven to their limits to begin with.

Thanks,
Peter

[ivo]

Hei, I also did notice this in my setup, I would even say that gapless playback is gone sometimes.

Cases:
1) Between the 2 tracks there is a short drop out, however it is the same album.
2) At the end of album, dropouts occur in the last tracks only, the first tracks play well.

When I did HDD defrag in my Vista (used alternate software) the dropouts became much smaller. It makes me think this all is connected to the way XX works with files on the HDD. It has become more sensitive to HDD access since y4.

[PeterSt]

Ivo, thank you for sharing this. And yes, it occurred to me that Ed is experiencing this not right from the start, or anyway it gets worse lateron. This well can be when memory is involved, and knowing that the used memory will always grow somewhat in the beginning until it has reached a stable level. In the mean time though, other processes may have more problems (because of less available memory) opposed to the beginning of playback.
So it is the art here to recognize what actually is causing this bugger.

Anyway, that 0.9y in general is more sensitive to this, I experienced myself too and is even recognizeable in the program to a certain extend.

Well, for those who may think that supid Peter only destroys at some times, here's another experience from just the other day :

I was copying a disk for backup during playback. At a certain stage I thought "did I hear a click ?" At a next stage it became clear that clicks were there which shouldn't, and again later (think in terms of an hour) it became crazily annoying, and ten minutes later I had to shut off the music.

Doesn't this sound similar ?
In this case the memory did not increase, but sure something was more and more degrading sound (puh, call that degrading while in the end it is merely like trrrrrrrrr).
This, while before I could do these kind of copies unnoticed.

The (or my) point is, there is no way I can cause this explicitly, while some change of mine certainly now incurs for it. It is that backup "causing" it, whereas before it caused nothing.

[ivo]

Peter,

Well, it seems you are in even worse situation. I have pretty well optimized my laptop and actually I can browse web, copy files from hdd to my usb stick and do similar stuff during playback and I do not hear such clicks at all. Actually I use to do nothing when listening to music, but just giving example of what I can do. And the most interesting is that when I do not do anything just listen I hear short dropouts as I posted earlier, however it is ok with latency and it is ok with HDD (it is fragmented for 1% only!).
Peter: what is your latency as reported by DPC latency checker?

[PeterSt]

Don't laugh ... a steady 1000.
This means there's some fixed holding up somewhere, and I never could find what it is. But, it never jumps out of that 1000 either, and officially it's okay.

But to keep in mind :

Some have the experience of this reported latency *dropping* when XX plays. Go figure.
(although back then I could reason a bit how this can happen).


PS: I have an (HTPC organized) XP machine that shows 30-40 or so. Not much helpful, but that thing is loaded with everything you can imagine.

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,
Back again.
First I have to tell you that the Atom I am using is the 330. This means it has two real cores of 1.6 each. It has even the possibillity of switching on hyperthreading. That means two extra virtual cores. I realize myself now, maybe I better can switch that off. Maybe coreapp. can't work with that properly. I have to try that.
I have worked with the single Atom to, and that one worked fine withe the older XXhsses.
Next..
I have done all the settings you asked for. Starting with Four times Upsampling Arc pred', Core app. 3, 120MB, Unatt. etc.
I started a disk. 1: 4.17min, 2: 4.01min, 3: 5.12, 4: 2.51, 5: 3.26, 6: 6.07, 7: 3.26, 8: 3.04
Music started after 25sec (15sec, end of third track with no upsampling 4xchecked), end of 7th track.
Irregularly very short flashes. Now once in tw seconds, then in half a second.  Not predictable! More seldom than these small onces, irregular too, longer flashes. Some seconds after the occurrance, music can halt for half a second orr even three or four seconds.
I tried this with 4x, No Upsampling, and had more regular flashes folowed by stops.
Think you'r getting a little crazy now!
Will stop here for now,


Ed

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,
Maybe good to know.....
The dropout behaviour is unchanged when I uncheck double and quad.
Strength!

Ed

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

..and forget about the ticks. I am affraid they were not related to the stops. They didn't show up the last two days or so.

Ed

[PeterSt]

..and forget about the ticks. I am affraid they were not related to the stops. They didn't show up the last two days or so.

But I hope you know what you did to let them get away ! (notice that a reboot can "do" that).

[PeterSt]

Irregularly very short flashes. Now once in tw seconds, then in half a second.  Not predictable! More seldom than these small onces, irregular too, longer flashes. Some seconds after the occurrance, music can halt for half a second orr even three or four seconds.
I tried this with 4x, No Upsampling, and had more regular flashes folowed by stops.

Ok Ed, thank you for your time on this.

So, notice that with 4x upsampling and 120MB Split Size, the really only I/O XX is causing will be at the 1 minute mark. One next a 2:10 and then at around 3:10 etc.. A few tiny I/O's may buzz around that larger I/O (with large I mean half a second, a bit depending on the speed of your (I/O) system) but always right ahead or after it (maybe one second distance.

All other I/O is not to be there.

Question : Did you perform this : How I tweaked my Vista virtually dead ?
And notice that the one thing which may bug you for hours and hours (even to infinity) would be the "Indexing" of the drives. This is a checkbox at the bottom of the property page of the device (rightclick on it in Explorer), and if you really have many albums, Vista will indeed be busy with that forever. This is the only explanation I see for so many I/O's, outside spyware (!!). Anyway, shut that indexing off if you have it on, and denote "all dubdirectories and files" (similar) as well. *IF* you have done this before, but forgot the subdirectories and files, redo it by briefly switching it on, and off again. Only then you are able to shut off the subdirectories and files. Do this for each disk (partition) you have, including the OS disk !

If this is not it, unplug your network cable and see if it stops. If so, you'll be having spyware.

Lastly for now, I don't know anymore whether I asked to you shut off the virtual memory, but if not, do so for testing; I mean, those I/Os also can come from Vista putting your music files into virtual memory (hence the swap file on disk), and that causes the highest priority I/Os and will cease sound for sure when performed at the wrong moment. If you have it On for more disks, shut it off for all of them.
Please note that I don't think this is the culprit, because the I/Os coming from there won't be "continuous" and only at track or file part boundaries. However, only when virtual memory has been shut off, you can be sure the I/Os you see don't come from there. Otherwise you will be in the blind.

Important : This effort is only worthwhile if you have these "drop outs" within the around 1 minute boundaries. If you have them at those boundaries only, it still may help, but chances are little then. All depends on what you mean by "irregular too" and your interpretation of the longer lasting flashes". Otoh, if such an irregular longer lasting flash comes together with the "flash" I need for loading the track (part), you may well be in trouble because of *that*. It is all a complex thing and about "balancing" priorities with regard to necessary processes, keeping up the good sound, and presenting some sound at all. Nothing is allowed to disturb that, but in your case something (or many things if you never performed the Tweak Dead subjects) does.
Regardless of 0.9y changes, what you have, should not be.


PS: It doesn't look like your Atom is in trouble, which was about your first test : when does music start playing. It is good you added the "no difference with no upsampling", because that only prooves it more. It is the I/O (and the priority of it) doing it to you, and notice that "priority" can also mean the processor stalls because it *has* to. This happens with virtual memory swap activitities (some times).

[JohanZ]

So, notice that with 4x upsampling and 120MB Split Size, the really only I/O XX is causing will be at the 1 minute mark. One next a 2:10 and then at around 3:10 etc.. A few tiny I/O's 

I do recognise this interval on mine system when i have the external diskacitivity. Every minute I hear the external disk spin-up, mostly followed with a break of 1 or more seconds in the music. When Ed uses external drives that are very quit is it possible that we have the same problem?

Ed you mentioned earlier that you use two seperate discs? Using "Copy to XX drive" And when you switch your external drives off after a break in the sound, do you get error messages?

[ivo]

Hei, some news from me:
Tonight I did listen (unattended) to 2 albums (mp3 192 kbps) and did not have any interrupts in music at all with latest XX. Music files sitting on the same drive where XX sits, just different folder.
My XX settings (see also signature):
scheme-2
nothing
high
Next I mention only then if ticked:
Allow Format Change
24 bits
simple search
fast rendering
stop services
100 MB
start Engine3 during conversion
tooltips

[ed linssen]

Hi Johan, Hi Peter,

I did kill vista/w7 like peter advised. In fact, it is one of the first things I do after a good working fresh install. In my case I have eventually put some more disc-activities from automatic to manually.
Yesterday late night I did put the latest bios in my little Intel-board, fiddeld with the PCI latency settings, switched on Hpet in the bios, and some more crazy things. But no gain! Too much disc activity still! Causing stops. I tried without Hyperthreading as well. No effect!
Johan, my new setup is one 2.5 inch sata disc with both XXhi-end and W7 Ultimate 64bits on sata 0. A second sata-disc with the music on it on the second sata connection on the board. So both intern!
My momentary dac , 24/192, is the PCI audiocard from ASUS, the Xonar essence st, works pretty good, even with the four times upsampling and Arc Prediction.
Today I even played with a seperate USB mediaplayer as extern musiccontainer disc, made regrettably no difference in the dropout behaviour.
In the meantime I have forgotten what I did more, instead of getting to bed on a reasonable time. But I fancy playing around with the toys, so.....
Hope you(and I) will find a solution eventually.
Keep your ears open!!!
Regards,
Ed

 

[Telstar]

Hi Johan, Hi Peter,

I did kill vista/w7 like peter advised. In fact, it is one of the first things I do after a good working fresh install. In my case I have eventually put some more disc-activities from automatic to manually.
Yesterday late night I did put the latest bios in my little Intel-board, fiddeld with the PCI latency settings, switched on Hpet in the bios, and some more crazy things. But no gain! Too much disc activity still! Causing stops. I tried without Hyperthreading as well. No effect!
Johan, my new setup is one 2.5 inch sata disc with both XXhi-end and W7 Ultimate 64bits on sata 0. A second sata-disc with the music on it on the second sata connection on the board. So both intern!
My momentary dac , 24/192, is the PCI audiocard from ASUS, the Xonar essence st, works pretty good, even with the four times upsampling and Arc Prediction.
Today I even played with a seperate USB mediaplayer as extern musiccontainer disc, made regrettably no difference in the dropout behaviour.
In the meantime I have forgotten what I did more, instead of getting to bed on a reasonable time. But I fancy playing around with the toys, so.....
Hope you(and I) will find a solution eventually.
Keep your ears open!!!
Regards,
Ed

 

You dont have any of the following:
-antivirus
-defrag (of all brands but the ones that are not resident such as defraggler)
-any of the cr*ppy asus utility (es. asus probe)
-some of the autoupdate stuff from creative

Go to  your control panel and check for those. also post a list of the running processes. There must be something bugged (my first suspect is asus probe).

[ivo]

Ed, please do the following also:
1) turn off pagefile
2) set to disable or to manual the majority of your services (be carefull here!!! I have only 36 "STARTED" services out of 146 on my vista home premium)
3) turn off scheduled disk defrag
4) check dma settings for HDD, DMA helps a lot
5) turn off aero or similar UI stuff, stick with default or standard scheme
6) turn off all UI effects
7) turn off update features of all your software (including windows update, it can be turned on manually when needed)
under vista there are still several deeper things to turn off or set to manual (just do not remember all now, take a walk over Control Panel)
9) set to disable in bios and in OS all hardware which you do not need (built in audio, comm ports, etc)
10) turn off HDD indexing stuff, this one is really IS NOT NEEDED

[ed linssen]

Hi Telstar,

Thanks for your remarks!. Asus drivers are reasonable weak, the 64bit drivers, the very latest though still beta, exelled over the vista 32 drivers. The exe update utillity works smooth, but prone to virusses of course. I wil do a thorough viruscheck tonight, hopen to find some bug or whatever. I must say, I had the same problems with the former Vista-setup. The dropout thing....
The computer is not online and not connected to my network or the internet. But it has been for a short time for updating W7 after the istall!
Most of the drivers and stuf I needed was brought into the cumputer with a USB-stick.
The sevices-list changes in a weird way, it grows and get smaller all the time with a lot of doubles. Looks like infection indeed. I dive in it right away and let you know what I find.
Thanks for your advice,

Ed

[ed linssen]

Hi Ivo,

All ideas are welcome.
Think I did already 97% of all the things I can do, but who knows.
 Checking again and again will bring hopely the solution!

Telstar,

I did a complete viruscheck. Nada!
No infections whatsoever found.
Thanks for the help,

Ed

[Telstar]

Telstar,

I did a complete viruscheck. Nada!
No infections whatsoever found.
Thanks for the help,

Ed

No, i said to uninstall the antivirus and any other resident program. Of course, better if the PC is not connected to internet.
If nothing does, format and reinstall windows (and stay offline)

[JohanZ]

No, i said to uninstall the antivirus and any other resident program. Of course, better if the PC is not connected to internet. If nothing does, format and reinstall windows (and stay offline)

Before Y4 I did not have this interruptions in playback. I have the impression that the disk I/O (activities) are causing processor activities and interruptions in soundreproduction. As I mentioned earlier when it go's wrong (in my case) I hear sometimes an interval of 1 minute discactivities. It's a pity that you can't switch off your internal musicdisc when you hear this interruptions. Maybe your logfiles tell's you more about the discactivities.

You never attached your logfiles in this post when you have this interruptions. Maybe this give's Peter some more information.

[PeterSt]

Ed,

Just for your motivation, I still remember that the dropouts started to happen to you at 0.9y-3, so there's always a theoretical solution. BUT, I rather don't change the code because of the current SQ, unless for bugs (and I will sure look for them). However :

The behaviour of your disk I/O is not good *and* most probably the cause in the end. And keep in mind : behind that I/Os will be a process (or more) and it will be eating.
Also, it may be fair to state that you are not going to solve it. That is, not by the means used so far.

What I would do in this stage, is go to the Resource Monitor (button in Task Manager) and examine what is causing these I/Os (so, look at the Disk Activity). I don't say this is something for you, but someone just has to do it.
Btw I asked you to switch off Virtual Memory. Did you ? (maybe I missed your response on this). You really need to do that *first*, and leave it off until you're rid of those I/Os.
If you don't know what to do with the resource monitor, try to make a screenshot (or several, because the list will always change) and post them. Be sure not to cause I/Os yourself at making the screenshot (like "let's start Word to put the pictures in"). Thus, have that all ready in advance, and let the heavy I/Os die out. It may take 2 or 3 minutes (you will see what I mean by that).

If you are off line it won't be spy ware (I think). So count that out. But do (as Telstar advised) get rid of all the anti virus/spyware stuff. Not only for now and test, but actually forever (which in the end is up to you of course).

And indeed it may be a good idea to list your processes to us; who knows we may see something.

Although nothing is wrong with Ivo's advise to let only 36 services remain, it is my advise to not spend time on that. Not now. My tweak list is sufficient, but be careful, this is for Vista, and W7 might need a somewhat different list.

Computers ...


PS: What Johan just said ... yes, you may post the XX and X3 log files. I never thought something interesting would show in there, but you never know. The least I can do is look.

[PeterSt]

Before Y4 I did not have this interruptions in playback. I have the impression that the disk I/O (activities) are causing processor activities and interruptions in soundreproduction.

I think this is true, and more clear to you than to another because you can hear your disks. Haha.

I myself start to have the feeling that something may go wrong with the priorities, like with the OS bug I worked around. This is a most difficult thing, because while the sound engine receives the idle priority this can not be seen by TaskManager. Only internal program code can show it. For WASAPI there's also a priority thing that leads its own life. Something like "I'm audio, thus I must have a high priority". In there something might be wrong as well, or worse, since I mangle the priorities the internal OS code may not be able to cope with that.

And for Ed and to stay awake : Thus this post tells how to solve something which is wrong in the first place, while my before post just tries to solve the I/Os which in effect will also solve it (I think).

It may be time for a special debug version for Ed ...

[ed linssen]

Hi All,

Before I started this thread, and after installation the OS, I did not install any anti-virusprogram. Switched off Defender too. First time I did Yesterday because of a rongish understanding of Telstar's reply. After the install , of the A-virusprogram, I did a total scan and uninstalled the program again.
Yes Peter, sorry I did not tell you about the virtual memory. I had switched it off already before I started this thread, some two weeks ago.
I have to leave the house now, and will send some screenshots and loggings, no, no leggings, later in the evening.
Thanks all for the compassion,

Ed

[JohanZ]

It may be time for a special debug version for Ed ...

....and..Johan?

[PeterSt]

Hey Ed,

You may have missed a response to your email about the log files not being attached, but I rather have them in here anyway.
Click the "+ Additional Options" you see at the bottom left at creating a post. In there you can easily attach them (don't paste the contents in a post because it is too long).

Peter

[Telstar]

Hi All,

Before I started this thread, and after installation the OS, I did not install any anti-virusprogram. Switched off Defender too. First time I did Yesterday because of a rongish understanding of Telstar's reply. After the install , of the A-virusprogram, I did a total scan and uninstalled the program again.
Yes Peter, sorry I did not tell you about the virtual memory. I had switched it off already before I started this thread, some two weeks ago.
I have to leave the house now, and will send some screenshots and loggings, no, no leggings, later in the evening.
Thanks all for the compassion,

Ed

I do not have other suggestions to you, except this:
-restart your pc
-open task manager/processes (tick show all users) and sort by cpu%
-check if there is something that goes above 5% most of the time, if so click on its properties and tell us.

[ivo]

Actually going through this thread makes me think that this one maybe a good answer to all questions ans concerns (have not tried by myself yet, will report here when done):

http://www.vlite.net/about.html

Has anyone tried it?

I have tried it for XP (for XP it is called nlite) and it is great!

Ivo

[AUDIODIDAKT]

Nice one Ivo,

http://www.msfn.org/board/windows-7-rtm-32-64-bit-updated-t137765.html

It can do W7 as well.............!

Will try it in the future


PS: If you can install programs too, its a kind of BACK-UP

[ed linssen]

Hi Telstar,

Thanks for your suggestions. I am working again with taskmanager. Processor duty only ecceeds the 5% barrier for XXengine3 and XXengine3.exe.
All the other processes about never pass the 2% line wile the average of the rest of the processes is a fraction of a percent.
I'll concentrate on disc activities and and prioryties. See what it delivers..

Ed

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

Some logs as you like them...
Hope tey tell you something!
Thanks,

Ed

[PeterSt]

Edit : NO !! Below textst about the "one core only" are all wrong. See next post.


Hi Ed,

Allright ... I won't say I solved it, but it looks like I can see the cause now. It is your Atom not doing what it promises plus what I said before : the program should error which it does not.

All may be caused your yourself at "tweaking" it for making one core of it (did you say *that* ?) while it - at least in its current state - still reports one core, but half or so. I don't know the effects of this really, where the program should error on addressing a core that doesn't exist ... (but which *does* exist I guess). Never mind this for now.

Currently there is "one processor" available, and the least I can say is that it is enormously slow. I know, I let you test this, but the test was not representative because I anticipated on two cores. Can't explain that, but it tricked me. Now :

The worst thing I see happening is that at track or file part boundaries there is not enough time for the processor to do its job. Actually - but I can not see that - it may be so that while something must be run in parallel it doesn't, and the parallel process only starts when the main process is finished. And the latter will be ... "playback".

On a side note - and as a measure for you - converting a whole album from FLAC should take 7-10 seconds, maybe double for a slower processor, but in your case this takes a minute. I think this is not because a way slow processor, but because in that stage the playback eats the time the conversion needs (by itself that is good).

So, during playback a process which is allowed to have 14 seconds and usually takes 4-5 for Quad Arc, in your case seems to take 16. Or at least the throughput time is 16, which is 2 too long for continious playback which will be somewhat less because of buffer stuff.

Long story short :

a. You may not have a multi core processor at all, but if so, a most slow one; or
b. Your processor runs in a one core mode, but can have addressed a 2nd core in the mean time (this is a processor or MS bug); or
c. The processor may have two cores but they can't be assigned for doing "work". That would be quite worthless.

Ed, if it is you having applied a wrong setting - or you may not exactly know when things are right, if you start an album like the one from the log files (needing FLAC conversion), look in the XX log file, and look for the ++++ and ---- lines. If you look at them now, you'll see a subsequent ++++ and ----; When more cores are active, you'll see ++++ followed by ++++ and ---- followed by ----. It is "mixed" (the ++++ denote the start of conversion, while the ---- denote the finish).
So at knowing this, you can test it at "back tweaking", of which I sure hope you can do it.

If you can't change it, I have a version for you which at least doesn't try to address cores which don't (officially) exist, and it may change the net result of things. But I'd rather that you get those cores to show, and I'm sure you would too ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

The before about the ++++ and ---- and my determination that this would show only one core is running, is false. Sorry !

There is a mode in XXHighEnd which just does it like this, although not really intended by me. And at least with Arc Prediction this mode is used, and some tests show possibly everything currently does (call that a bug by itself ).

This invalidates almost the whole of my previous post, weren't it that it would explain about everything to me - were it indeed so that only one core is used. For example, the *always* being short 2 seconds on the trackboundaries etc. can happen theoretically, but a. to me it looks outrageous that the particular process takes that long, b. you don't see a difference without Arc Prediction for the dropouts and c. it merely indicates that when at last the main process stops, that other process can do the work concerned. To be sure about this (and this *is* important) you may run one or three of those SAME tracks as from the topmost listed attachment without Arc Upsampling (untick Double/Quad as well). But start the whole album as before (just draw the log files when 3 tracks have played). Notice that the exact same behaviour can't be shown because of the less memory it occupies and the moments the other process gets active are different, but I guess I will be able to make something of it anyway. Please set the File size limit to 40 for this test, or otherwise the process may not get active at all.

Well, at least we can see that something is going on (wrongly), so let's see whether we can work it out for the better.
Peter

[PeterSt]

In the mean time, and to shortcut other eventualities, here's that version that won't address non-existing cores. As how I see it now, I don't think it matters. So, just to be sure.

Paste the Engine3.exe in there over your current 0.9y-4 folder (not over older versions !).

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

These are some logs from the same CD with the advised settings.(post3091)
I'll try now with the sended core app. app.
Btw, I do have the feeling that changing prioritysettings makes a difference!

Gr,
Ed

[PeterSt]

Interesting ...

If you look between the ---- lines in the X3 log file :

12:01:29.2875534 Track ready to play ---------------------
12:03:22.3567901 Trackload started
12:03:22.3580401 Get file for track
~~
~~
12:03:24.1230672 Track ready to play ---------------------

you see that now the time needed to prepare a track "in that other process" I talked about, is 1.5 seconds or so, sometimes shorter.
This is to be compared wit your previous X3 log files, where this was 16 seconds. No, I don't say that this eliminates your drop outs, but I do say there was no other way than to have them with those 16 seconds.

All is tricky for judgement, because your elimination of Double/Arc also eliminates the processing needed for that, which is quite a bit. Also the file parts are relative short now (but the "quiet time" between loads is 2 minutes while it was 1 minute before nevertheless).

Yes, the priorities WILL differ, but I can't tell how when things workout wrongly in the first place. My hunch would be that nothing/nothing worksout better in your case, but don't forget to reboot AFTER setting that.

As said, this all may not eliminate your dropouts (yet), BUT I hope it is so much clear now to you how things work with the log files, that you at least can try to look yourself what actually changes what for the better. From there we may be able to see where the real culprit is.

Allright, now this is clear, just go back to the Arc Prediction and other settings from before, but keep in mind those priorites you may want to play with (and notice that only at setting to nothing from a "not notthing" requires a reboot; all the other settings can just be done without).

So, starting off at the 120 Split size (which is nicely preserved in your earlier post and attachments), you may now decrease the 120 to 60 (half hehe), and look for the results in the X3 log file. Does the 16 seconds from before (in between the dashed lines) decrease ? if yes that is good (and it should decrease more or less linearly), but if well under 14 seconds, you can't receive dropouts from *that* (and before you observed that nothing changed at decreasing the Split size, which I now use for a base). Does it NOT change and the 16 seconds remain, there is a "priority" problem, or task devision problem between the cores otherwise.

Hey, you said you liked tweaking ... here you go ...
hahaha

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

Though I tickeld my computer deader and leaner than I ever did , most gain was found on the settings page of XXHEND itselves!
Playback suffers sporadicly from attemps to halt, trying to give up, but doesn't do so afterall. So the longer stops are about gone!
I could not lay a finger on the real cause of the stops, it has no relationship with processorspeed I am affraid. It takes 0 to1% of the proc. energy while playing from memory unattended or attended.. Maybe it has more to do with the amount of calculations the Atom 330/945 can do in a timespan. I don,t know really.
Think Í'll have to try a core 2 duo with a different chipset. But I hope you will find a way to get XX lighter in such a way that more computers can deal with all its merits.
Here are the settings I work with rather satisfying right now:

Double-Arc Prediction
Volume -6
Playerprio. :LOW
Treadprio. :NOTHING
Dac is :24/192
At 16 bits Dac needs 32bits
Stop services
Split File size: 120
Start engine during conversion
Q1,2 3 4 5  :  4,0,0,0,0

Cheers,

Ed

 

[PeterSt]

Hahaha, I feel that somehow this is key :

Playback suffers sporadicly from attemps to halt, trying to give up, but doesn't do so afterall.

but I don't understand anything of it !


Then, I miss the OSD stuff in your list. Is it On now ? (while the time does not display, as I understand from the other topic ?)

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

Stop laughing you plague and timethief!!! Hahahahahahaha(this is me laughing)
The sentence meant: sometimes you can hear the difficulties in the playback proces, but not resulting in a dropout. Stays a little cryptic maybe but it is how I feel it. I do not have stops anymore. At least with doubling/arc pred. With quad, stops are back...
Coverart is shown as walpaper, height:470, thumbnail cachesize 470
At attended (but does not show up)
Simple search
Tooltips
that's all......

Ed

[ed linssen]

Peter,

And yes, since the time display worked cr*ppy or not at all, I did not swith it on anymore.

Ed

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

I have been quiet for a while. But it does not mean I could solve my (music)stutter problem computer-wise.
So my solution for the time beeing is playing double/arc instead of quad.
It runs smootly on double.

However, following one of your early comments, trying Q1/8(or higher) in stead of Q1/4 has influence indeed on the occurrance of the hickups with quad/arc
Raising to 12 or higher, the pauses stop beeing there! So there is a relationship.
Resuming here are the solutions:

1) Playing with the priority settings and
2) Changeing the Q1 setings to a higher level.

Looking forward to y5?
Cheers for now, and thanks for your help,

Ed
                                                                 

 

[PeterSt]

Thanks Ed, that is valuable information. Today I am going to work on it (just having another small project behind me ).

[ed linssen]

Hi Peter,

Still another addition to my last post...
Since I raised split filesize from 100 to 120, I had no pauses anymore, but.... a lot of times music stops in the last part of the last track of a totally played disc. (settings:quad/arcpred.,attended)
Raising the filesize to a higher figure such as f.i. 125, cures the premature stopping, but brings the pauses back!
Just a litlle more brainfood...

Best,

Ed
 

 

[PeterSt]

Interesting ...
But sure good to know !

Thank you Ed (specialist on interrupts !)