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Author Topic: New standard for PC playback  (Read 8847 times)
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Gerner
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« on: September 17, 2007, 08:23:59 pm »

        Hello nerds...

        Well this time it took me quite some time to grap the keyboard and spill nice words all over the place here.

        Normally I'm not that slow to pull the trigger when improvements enters my audio world. This time were an exception.

        This was all due to some "try to go back" and see what you had then and what you have now tests.

        So when the 9K landed here:

      • I tried out the 9K towards all past versions. No camparison here. 9K had the openess so defined in most XX-versions, but now with a much higher contend and richer glow and boddy to the music. Yes, the cello got the boddy back and the harmonics are shining or singing if you like. Hardly any digital dirt left now.

      • I now went to see how 9K make it up to Foodbar set to Kernel Streaming. RME 96 samples. Well the last feature (KS) certainly is an improvement to Foobar which came alive not sounding far as dull as previous versions. Still Foobar is a "warm" player and fine rounded up. But 9K kills it on resolution and spaciousness

      • So why not try all players available against my CD spinner. The old over-tweaked TEAC P-700? Oh well yes, there I have the source. The naked CD's as you buy them....before ripping and everything. And certainly the CD's have some information to tell us, are sort of in balance with them selves, but what a dirty grainy sound. Pfew...


      So all this flip-flopping between the sound sources was a good trial to hear if XX is still on track and aiming at Ultimate.

      And certainly with 9K it is, must be close to Ultimate (not addressing all the bugs inside it). Hahaha..

      It is the all star version until so far and relaxed musical enjoyment is at it's highest ever.

      Could I wish for more? Perhaps...what would it be then? Hmmm...I'm not sure how to put it:

      Without giving up the open spaciousness and the resolving power the player has, a tad more focus on the timbre: The inside the music details inner handshake that leads to the close to live music sound. This 5th element thing that ties everything together and leaves you believing this is really the live musicians I have standing there in front of you.
      The Q1 cannot do that job for me. If it's a job at all to deal with?

      We have to remeber we all have so many different speakers, amps, dac's etc.... that it is becomming harder and harder to tell excactly who's the "sinner".

      For your info I use #3 Vista Q1=0, phase checked, ThreadPrio Real Time, RME 48 samples, FW to FF SPDIF to nos-dac....that's it.

      Oh..BTW congrat me for my new 2 x 3TB PC station. What a tower... swoon swoon swoon swoon swoon swoon swoon swoon swoon


      I think that's all.


      Thanks Peter for once more adding quality time to the rest of my life.


      Gerner  friends (And I cannot erase those list list list attached here?)[/list][/list][/list]
      « Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 08:07:22 am by Gerner » Logged

      Vista-Ultimate PC  -> XX version very old  -> USB -> CrazyT..soon NOS1
      Troubleless playback.
      PeterSt
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      « Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 11:39:24 pm »


      Thank you Gerner.
      On the <list> things, you'd have to remove the ones on top and at the bottom. I know you did not put them there, but it happens when you do something else wrong (unmatched li tags).
      Btw, if you have one <list> pair (you have three) you'll achieve the same by having an empty line before each </li>.

      On to the music ...

      Quote
      9K had the openess so defined in most XX-versions, but now with a much higher contend and richer glow and boddy to the music. Yes, the cello got the boddy back and the harmonics are shining or singing if you like.

      Yes, very recognizeable. One of the most occurring things is the harmonics. If we could measure that by (church) bells, I've never heard them so beautiful. And I mean BEAUTIFUL.

      Quote
      Without giving up the open spaciousness and the resloving power the player has, a tad more focus on the timbre: The inside the music details inner handshake that leads to the close to live music sound. This 5th element thing that ties everything together and leaves you believing this is really the live musicians I have standing there in front of you.
      The Q1 cannot do that job for me. If it's a job at all to deal with?

      Well, since we go on and on with the improvements, I guess Yes. But, currently I would not know how without destroying other things. If you'd ask me, now the jitter is nicely spread over the frequency spectrum, which doesn't say much about the jitter level itself. Thus, if I could maintain the spreading, but decrease the level ... you never know what happens. And mind you, "the" DAC has physical limitations which I can't influence by software throughout. So somewhere it stops with "the" DAC ("the" = anyone's, and they are all different).

      But I still have a couple of ideas. Other things first now. yes

      Peter

      Logged

      For the Stealth III LPS PC :
      W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
      XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
      A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
      Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

      For a general PC :
      W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
      *XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
      Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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      Gerner
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      « Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 08:43:10 am »

      List List List...he he..

      Yeah now I see it, but I think I can say when editting my post before posting it, it were not visible in this writing window? If I choose to "modify" after posting...yes then it's there, but not alowing me to edit further, at that moment??

      When you touch the "XX can do a lot (read un-do a lot) until the signal sees the DAC".... yes, that must be the end of it. From there it's not up to the XX....unless you go DSP'ing everything to peoples personal taste...and still the signal end up at the DAC in use.

      I see along the way the the XX were perfectionized showing lesser and lesser jitter, and the lesser of it the more human it became. 9K the absolute winner of them all.

      Interesting that you address the dispertion of the jitter (left) has to do with our perception of the digital sound becoming analogue. I mean, more like real life sounds.
      The key must then be to eliminate what is left of it, if possible, and then. Bingo...Ultimate version 1.0 !

      If removing the eventual remains of jitter, no matter how it's spread all over the frequency range, is resulting in another math used in the XX. Well I think then it is likely to change the whole XX math being the result and starting from scratch would be the measure here?

      Well, you the expert Peter, may laugh here as I don't know anything about it. I don't know if there is a jitter free world inside the digi-universe? One thing I know is that many engineers have tried to hunt this Gordian Knod down in many ways....without really acheiveing what they aimed at. Without really having solved the problem, and for sure the marketing of eventual improvements did waste a lot of nice leaflets and brochures. Zillions of km2's of paper were used to rave about it in magazines and tons of components and metal boxes were produced to let people be able to buy the products and learn by them selves.

      So the approach to acheive it might be a result of different thinking?

      Philosopher

      Gerner
       
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      Vista-Ultimate PC  -> XX version very old  -> USB -> CrazyT..soon NOS1
      Troubleless playback.
      edward
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      « Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 08:11:15 am »

      Gerner, I'm also using Q=0 with invert checked and thread priority set to REALTIME. And on top of that, my DAC is sounding good with the (double) oversampling to 88.2 checked.

      Peter, any chance you can implement capability for 24/88.2 & 24/96 files in time for version 1.0? There are some decent sites for downloading uncompressed 24/96 now. Would love to hear them through XXHighEnd!

      Thanks.
      Logged

      Home built PC (Zalman TNN-300 Silent Case = Intel E2160 - Dual Core 1.8GHz) => Vista (Home Premium) => RAMDisk => M-Audio Audiophile USB (AK4528 DAC) Latency 128 =>

      April 19, 2008
      0.9u-14a (Double, No Invert, Mem Unchecked, Volume -24dB ** Q1 = -1 ** Player Priority=Low ** Thread Priority=Realtime ** Core Appointment Scheme-1 ** Unattended)
      PeterSt
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      « Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 09:07:59 am »

      Oh, I'm as much bugged as you that I can't try those files. But I guess I did not work on that so far because my stereo DAC can't handle that ... Cry
      But I have a DAC which can, so at least I am able to create/test it. Now I must find some time ...
      Logged

      For the Stealth III LPS PC :
      W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
      XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
      A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
      Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

      For a general PC :
      W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
      *XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
      Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

      Global Moderator
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