Phase Alignment - WOW, WOW, WOW!

[BertD]

Maybe you need to set Q1 to fourteen. See below from this note from Peter: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2093.msg21474#msg21474

Yep, that did the trick. Thanks...

Addendum : A month or so after this was written originally

Too much is written for my little brain to follow  and remember, I am a novice regarding this XX version.

Bert

[BertD]

Yes, PA definitely engaged. But I was just being an idiot - I quoted the DC offset at idle, and not when playing music. With PA engaged, the meters go off scale when music is playing.

That explains... 

On a side note: Bert, my Quads have transformers at their inputs, so aren't bothered by the amp's DC output. Would the gainclones care if they outputted >1V DC? I mean, in my case, with my Quads, do I really need an input capacitor on my amps?

Your transformers will be more or less saturated by the DC component. Its either a capacitor in front of the transformers (think 1F or so) or in front of the amp.

I am sure the amp likes to be free from such values of DC also...

Bert

[Scroobius]

Bert & Mani - I have been measuring the temperature of my LM3875 chips and although I have not made enough checks yet to be sure it appears that an offset difference of around 40-60mv (measured at the speaker terminals) gives a very significant 2-3 deg C difference in temperature as measured on a common heat sink. This is the offset caused by the 2-5mv offset generated by NOS1 at the input to the amp. I have more measurements to make but from my experiences to date a big offset into my GainClone amps (that have no capacitors in the signal path) is probably a very bad thing.

Decoupling caps at the input to the amp are the only way forward for me I do not see with my setup that DC blocking at the speakers will work. But I do have more tests to do so this is only a preliminary view.

Paul

[Jud]

Well, sadly I won't have the chance to experience Phase Alignment on the main system downstairs with the Spectral Amp that certainly passes DC (point of pride for them, really) that I'm not going to change.  But with my humble upstairs system (better computer there anyway) I would like to attempt it.  First I need a multimeter, and searching Radio Shack's inventory online doesn't turn up a lot immediately.  Anyone have a suggestion for a not terribly expensive unit available in the USA that would fit the bill?

Thanks.

Edit: Think I've found one at Sears.  What fun, the chance to play with something that will either give me fabulous sound or ruin my amp and speakers.

[listening]

Hey Mani, did you try SFS @ 2 and PA Strength at 1? This sent the SQ here even further into the stratosphere. In fact, I think that changing SFS to anything other than 2 degrades the sound--perhaps the SFS issue is now a non issue!

Hi Brian,

did not explore this side of XXHIghend before - that was a big mistake! First I thought it sounds like a studio monitor but that's not correct. It sounds like a headphone with 3D image! Very, very detailed and exquisite.

Georg

[boleary]

 

It sounds like a headphone with 3D image! Very, very detailed and exquisite.

Hey Georg, this description of yours is perfect. I'd only add that somehow the music becomes more "real" or alive sounding. When I turn PA off everything suddenly sounds flat in comparison.

[christoffe]

Hi Peter,

In my opinion Phasure shall come up with a technical solution (a small unit with capacitors) to avoid an overhead of DC in front of the amps.

Everybody should benefit from the new mode "Phase Alignment".

The DC offset on my amp is limited to <50mV (with another setting < 590mV) and the values measured by listeners on their system is much to high for mine.
(Quote - note by BertD  - already I see peaks appearing of 2V - Unquote)

Best

Joachim

P.S. I order one unit straight, because I'm a "Super Electrician" with 10 thumbs.

[manisandher]

It sounds like a headphone with 3D image! Very, very detailed and exquisite.

… somehow the music becomes more "real" or alive sounding. When I turn PA off everything suddenly sounds flat in comparison.

I agree with these observations - I call it the 'holographic effect'. But I also think that PA can sound a little too 'fresh' (on my system at least). With Q1=30, I've increased xQ1 from 1 to 5 and this seems to have brought the tonal balance back from slightly bright to neutral. I've lost some of the holographic effect of PA as a result, but it's not totally gone.

I tried SFS=2 (and 60) and phase_strength=1 (with Q1=14 and xQ1=1) but again just too fresh on my system. So my settings currently stand at:

- device buffer = 4096
- SFS = 430 (straight contiguous)
- Q1 = 30
- xQ1 = 5
- phase strength = 0

On my 'Le Monster' PC, I'm getting zero glitches, dropouts or stops. And apart from having to wait a few seconds for XX to react (due to the massive latency), everything works nicely.

Mani.

[manisandher]

I tried SFS=2 (and 60) and phase_strength=1 (with Q1=14 and xQ1=1) but again just too fresh on my system.

I'm currently listening to my office system and these settings sound very, very good, and not "too fresh" at all! With SFS=60, the sound is indeed very 'analogue', just as Peter describes in his PA tutotial.

But I have to say for those who haven't managed to get PA to work yet, even without it, 0.9z-7 sounds great. I could easily live with SFS=280 and Q1=30 in this system without PA.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Joachim and all,

I appreciate all your efforts of measuring and putting up the results, but I don't think this is of much real use. So, the one puts up this, the other measures that, but the only thing which may come from it is that people may read 'less danger' while for themselves the danger is there just the same. Thus, it is not allowed to listen to others; instead you must measure and check yourself and decide ONLY based on that. Therefore putting up results here challenges for mistakes at others. And these mistakes can be expensive ...

Peter

[manisandher]

Hey Mani, did you try SFS @ 2 and PA Strength at 1? This sent the SQ here even further into the stratosphere.

Ha, I should just check what you and Peter have settled on and follow it! I now have SFS=2 and PA_strength=1 on both my systems. Last night it sounded too 'fresh', today it sounds wonderful. Maybe I need to clean my ears 

Mani.

[phantomax]

Joachim and all,

I appreciate all your efforts of measuring and putting up the results, but I don't think this is of much real use. So, the one puts up this, the other measures that, but the only thing which may come from it is that people may read 'less danger' while for themselves the danger is there just the same. Thus, it is not allowed to listen to others; instead you must measure and check yourself and decide ONLY based on that. Therefore putting up results here challenges for mistakes at others. And these mistakes can be expensive ...

Peter

Be careful with excursions . I went yesterday too far searching for a combination in order to avoid those plops and I was totally frightened when I got a loud noise and suddenly failed the sound from the left speaker.
Fortunately all returned to normal operation after a while.
The amplifier protection circuitry had come into operation
Said that sure I'm going to fall into the same reckless mistake 

[manisandher]

I'm really in two minds as to whether I want to post this... but I will anyway.

I was looking after my 7-month old son this morning, whilst my wife, Satty, was out doing something interesting (I'm sure) and my other 2.5-year old was at nursery.

Like many of you here, I'm fond of all sorts of music, from Beethoven to Bollywood (my Indian heritage helps with the latter) and this morning felt in the mood for some 'early music'. I loaded 'All' Improviviso - L'Arpeggiata' and just sat with my son listening all the way through. Something happens when I listen to beautiful music - I don't know, something awakens/stirs deep inside. But this usually only happens when I'm listening to music live. But this morning it happened, and it brought a tear to my eye. I don't know about you, but for me, although I'm not a musician, music is such an important part of my life. When I don't have access to 'beautiful' music, there is a void in my life, and I think this sits at a very deep subconscious level. I look around me, and all I have in life, but it doesn't feel totally complete. So, like many of you, I spend hours/days/months striving to fill the void. But this morning, with this beautiful music filling the room and one of my gorgeous boys sitting on my lap listening with me, life just felt so full... and I was totally grateful for what I have...

... including stumbling upon the Phasure website, I guess >4 years ago now.

Mani.

[Gerard]

Indeed WOW what a sound.

Only so many ticks in between which are to hard to play much longer. They scare me. 

Time for a new pc i guess.

But indeed what a clear pue sound.

 

[boleary]

I was going to put this in a new thread but after reading Mani's last post it just feels right here. Want to hear cymbals? Give the introductory part of "Heart of the Sunrise", track 10, from Yes's Fragile album a listen. Did this last night and the cymbals sounded so real, not like a live recording, but like live music. I've listened to this track hundreds of times and never before did those cymbals send shivers up my spine.

There is something about PA with a SFS of 2 that has put the music in my room into another league. Everything has become more "Musical" on an emotional, "this is why we listen to music" level. But I digress here cause Mani, in his last post, said it best.