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Author Topic: Standing waves and XX  (Read 5212 times)
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Gerner
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« on: May 30, 2007, 12:47:43 pm »

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I dont understand how XX player can reduce standing waves without Bose-ing the sound - which is the opposite of bit perfect?
Please explain.

It's far more easy to just observe it (without headphones ) than explaining it.
The most important is that I apply *no* digital processing whatsoever.

Peter


I addressed issues to this phenomenon before. I'm eager to hear from all of you who XX-playback via speakers if you notice this phenomenon and what you beleive it is.

I have a criple-theory by my self, which is partly connected to the speakers in use and for sure a spin off of the XX itself.

Standing waves:

There is for sure no way the XX can affect standing waves and alike as this belongs to the room structure it self.
But there is certainly a way a room can affect the *speakers*, which are under control by it's own maths and construction, and under control of what's behind them. The amp, the DAC, the source of music.

So if we take a look at the attempt the speakers try to master, namely to push out and suck in sound waves (air) precicely and with enough air preasure impedance ratio in order to leave us with an air-print in our rooms similar to the accoustical surrounding present at the recording or whatever intensions there were behind it, it is obvious that here most speakers fail. They cannot control the air in the room as the standing waves results in an interference and intermodulation of the diaphragmes position at a given moment.
Hence many speakers give up the fight to control the room, and everything is chaos. At least from a certain high frequenzy and down.
Well a cheap but understandable theory, I think.

The ideal speaker will not be affected seriously by a rooms resonating nature, and if it is such a speaker you pocess, it will alowe you to hear what the rest of the gear is doing. Standing waves will, however they are present, not disturbe you. The same way as all kind of waves naturally present everywhere where you are, is not disturbing a conversation between two or many people. Our brain doesn't care about it.

If you miss such a speaker as I'm talking about, then: http://diy.bd-design.nl/.... it.

Now let the amp be as close to a straight wire non poluting amlifying thing and the same goes for the DAC, then we are back at the source reader. The XX in this case.
It is from there you will accept the airprint in your room. It cannot emit from anywhere else, once the above is under control.
The XX derives bits from the source and do nothing to the data. (My idea at least, as I have heard versions doing a lot to the sound, but unrelated to the standing wave thing though).
The XX is in my perspective the *controler* of the speakers and their abilities to tell you the truth without having the room to shake your mind.
Now a bit of my theory is missing, as it is here I still do not quite comprehend, the XX leaves me with a bigger 3-dimensional foot-print in my room, in Peters and Berts as well, where the room has far far less to be said and dealth with.
So by the XX inner nature it does this to your airprint. That is a big magig.

And how do I know it is the XX doing it? Ha...throw in the same track on your CD player and listen. Huhaaah.. Waves are now disturbing more and unrelated to the speakers at all as far as I hear and see it.

So however it is this *benefit* of the XX is just there. I cannot explain it.

But for sure it demands the right gear to be noticed so clearly. Just throw in lousy amps and in particular lousy speakers....it wouldn't be that recognizable at all.

That XX is cleaner and more fluient compared to other sound derivers is another thing.


Ja ja..

Best regards from me...


Gerner  Happy

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Chris V
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2007, 01:45:56 pm »

Speakers cannot control the air in the room as the standing waves results in an interference and intermodulation of the diaphragmes position at a given moment.
Hence many speakers give up the fight to control the room, and everything is chaos.


Could this effect be most pronounced in front loaded horns. These are a perfect design to scoop up any standing waves and, like a hearing aid, direct them right back into the driver. Have you observed the effect on conventional box speakers?

Cheers Chris
 
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Music on external hard drive with own power supply. Brains of the system is a Raspberry Pi running Moode Audio. The RPI has dedicated Longdog audio linear power supply.
Signal passes first to SW1X Signature USB to SPDIF  converter
Then to SW1X Signature DAC
Then to Stevens and Billington TVC
Then to modified vintage triode amplifier
Then to open baffle speakers with vintage alnico drivers. Grundig tweeter, Saba Greencone midrange, Altec 416 VOTT base.
Everything is silver wired including mains and speaker cables
Gerner
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2007, 02:22:04 pm »

Speakers cannot control the air in the room as the standing waves results in an interference and intermodulation of the diaphragmes position at a given moment.
Hence many speakers give up the fight to control the room, and everything is chaos.


Could this effect be most pronounced in front loaded horns. These are a perfect design to scoop up any standing waves and, like a hearing aid, direct them right back into the driver. Have you observed the effect on conventional box speakers?

Cheers Chris
 

Chris, when we speak about horns, they are far less affected by room resonances compared to open- and boxed speakers. This is natural, as first of all horns must carry enourmous magnetical self-control. It is hard for a room to throw back energy, that could impact, into a small vice gripped diaphragme which is dead-locked by enourmeous Nd magnets and tight air gaps.
The *horns* are "just" air-impendance transformers which suffers from the same feed back from the room as anyone else speakersystem. The push-suck of air is no less problematic here and the rooms feed-back sees the same as the diaphragme does, except seen from the room it looks into a transmission line instead of.
So it is mainly the magnetical control that is an issue here.

Then: Last but not at all at least: The speakers ability to picture an undisturbed air-print (sound-print if you like) is very much related to phase homogenity from "DC to light". All diaphragmes involved must be acoustically phased controlled equally at all frequencies at all times.
They must work as "ONE" piston in order to control a room.

Who has such speakers? Not many, as High-End/Low-End/Whatever-End speaker manufactorers don't simply know anything about it and how to acheive it. Sad it is, but a fact.  oops

And no I have not "tested" the PC-playback and XX on conventional speakers.

Gerner friends
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Vista-Ultimate PC  -> XX version very old  -> USB -> CrazyT..soon NOS1
Troubleless playback.
Chris V
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2007, 02:58:08 pm »

Yes the theories seem watertight, but XX seems to be upsetting conventional wisdom in some places. Grin

Problem solving is often about looking for trends and similarities and at present the use of horn speakers is a contender. I think more will become evident as XX is employed in a variety of systems. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds. good
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Music on external hard drive with own power supply. Brains of the system is a Raspberry Pi running Moode Audio. The RPI has dedicated Longdog audio linear power supply.
Signal passes first to SW1X Signature USB to SPDIF  converter
Then to SW1X Signature DAC
Then to Stevens and Billington TVC
Then to modified vintage triode amplifier
Then to open baffle speakers with vintage alnico drivers. Grundig tweeter, Saba Greencone midrange, Altec 416 VOTT base.
Everything is silver wired including mains and speaker cables
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