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Author Topic: Playback Drive is better ?  (Read 7708 times)
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Scroobius
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« on: April 16, 2013, 09:31:35 pm »

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Re 2. : Maybe this is not a question I should answer. Numerous posts about it exist from off when 0.9z-7 was introduced (August 2012). My vote doesn't count. The vote of all does

If I can add my vote then (OK it is only a partial vote at this stage as you will see).

To test a USB 3 connected disc first I switched on the mobo USB 3 via device manager (I run with USB2 & 3 on the mobo disabled and with USB3 for NOS via a PCi card - cheers Nick). I I checked the SQ. Using the most revealing music I have (Arvo Part with 12 Cello's providing massed strings) there was a noticeable increase in edge apparent with mobo USB3 switched *on*. So that is as far as I got - I would not accept that increase in edge to get a possible improvement elsewhere.

I have previously connected another SATA disc in my system to use as a playback drive but the same thing there is an increase in edge so that is not an option either. But there is another possible option I am going to purchase another PCi USB3 card anyway so I will try it with that when I get it and see what happens.

By the way I used to have a dedicated partition on the SATA disc to use as a playback drive but (maybe not surprisingly) I could not detect any significant SQ benefit with playback drive used or not used on that partition.

Watch this space.

Paul
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621 Xeon 6120 LPS PC  -> Xeon Scalable 16/32 core with Hyperthreading On (all cores active) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.69  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Off / WallPaper Off/ OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelino Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 08:56:24 am »

Hi Paul,

I had to split this post from another topic because it is the most explicit OffTopic as can be. Regarding this, mind your "watch this space".

Also from that other topic :

Hi Peter  -  I note that you use a  Playback Drive = USB3 2TB as I said above I do not use a playback drive at present. A couple of questions:

1.  [...]

2.  When I was using playback drive I did not do any meaningful comparison of SQ versus not using it. Do you find it beneficial? I suppose you must or you would not use it but still it would be interesting to know the benefits.

Now, back to what's an original post now in this new topic, I think I have to tell you that you are not even comparing apples and oranges, but merely "nothing". So, in order to - in your situation ! - use a Playback Drive, you need to switch on devices in your system which earlier were shut off for better sound. So, it's almost a logical thing that now sound is worse - were you using any Playback Drive or not.

In the end you said it yourself : use a second USB3 PCI card and retry. Btw, what about using one card with two USB3 connections ?

Also, to better answer your question about what I think about the Playback Drive : Like -possibly burried- in last year's posts, the Playback Drive was created for equalizing SQ through the different sources (not only different disks/types/connections, but also WAV vs FLAC etc.). That in the mean time one can create a best sound through it (which will be the most dependent on systems and disk types found) is a bonus which comes along with it. So, once you are able to compare and apples are apples all right, it still and 100% definitely depends on the "drive" you use. Thus, one can never say "The Playback Drive does not work out for the better". So, once this is the thought, all it means is that you chose a drive which apparantly is not the best for SQ.

Lastly, do notice that it is so much out of our control what we actually imply for (electrical) changes, that it doesn't take much to imagine that differences do not spring from disks as such, but from the connection used. And, when not careful, it needed that "other" connection not in use before, while that by itself can be a bad thing to begin with. And yes, this is of course your exact own story. But also : your situation is more unique hence others don't go this far. All it should tell is : you can't read other's judgements because they did not set it up like you did, and others can't read your judgement for the same reason. It's just not comparable and as said, not even apples and oranges.

Btw, your experience mighty much looks like boleary's who in the end also ended up using one disk only (the OS disk obviously). It's a bit indirect, but I see the same base happening.

The real merits of this post for personal you ?
Nobody tells you are on the wrong track. But this is also how my judgement about using the Playback Drive will be useless to you because I do not use one disk only. Merely over 10 ...

HTH,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Scroobius
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 12:25:42 pm »

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In the end you said it yourself : use a second USB3 PCI card and retry. Btw, what about using one card with two USB3 connections ?

OK I have one PCi card with two USB3 connections one for NOS1 and the other for the keyboard. As the PCi card is cheapo I have ordered one anyway so that I have a couple of spare USB3 connections without having to turn on the mobo USB3 everytime (lazy or what!!!). Anyway I am exceedingly happy with SQ just now but anyway I will try a USB3 playback drive just out of interest - it won't take long.

Cheers

Paul
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621 Xeon 6120 LPS PC  -> Xeon Scalable 16/32 core with Hyperthreading On (all cores active) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.69  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Off / WallPaper Off/ OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelino Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Jud
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 03:36:49 pm »

So here I am still using RAMdisks for both XXHE and playback drive, because I tried it for Win8 when everyone was experimenting with it, liked it better there, and just kept the same arrangement without really doing any comparisons once everyone (me included) went back to Win7 for most/all listening.

The music lives on a USB2 drive (was Firewire with a Mac, but my Win machine doesn't play nice with it in that configuration for some reason) with the usual cheap wall wart SMPS.

So, a couple of questions:

- Would a USB3 drive rather than the USB2 drive to store music (with a cheap wall wart SMPS) make a difference, since I am not using the music storage drive as the playback drive?  Any suggestions re easy, inexpensive alternatives to the cheap wall wart SMPS?

- Peter, any reason you have both galleries and a playback drive?  What is the difference, if any, between the functions each performs?
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Win 7 64-bit; i7-950@3.07GHz; 16GB RAM; OS on SATA 6GB/s SSD; AIFF files on external FW HDD; XXHE and Playback Drive on separate RAMdisks; no page file; Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/preamp; PSE Studio IV amp; Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers or Etymotic Research ER-4P in-ear monitors.  XXHE 0.9z-8-3a settings for the moment: Peak Extend; Arc Prediction; Redbook files upsampled 2x; KS Adaptive Mode; Phase Alignment off; buffer=512; Straight Contiguous; Playerprio=Low; ThreadPrio=RealTime; Unattended; OS minimized; all services off; Q1=17, factor=2; SFS=2.1; XXTweaks=Ultimate; Time Performance Index=Not the best.
PeterSt
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 06:27:29 pm »

Hi Jud - I'll try ...

Quote
- Would a USB3 drive rather than the USB2 drive to store music (with a cheap wall wart SMPS) make a difference, since I am not using the music storage drive as the playback drive?

No and Yes.
swoon
No because the Playback Drive should determined the SQ, Yes because of reasons Paul's post implies. But generally think like : the less interfaces/devices you have actively running, the more you will be able to guide SQ towards your taste.
But also : I don't care much because it's an undoable thing for me, so I seek my tweaks elsewhere.
Did this help ? I highely doubt it.

Quote
Any suggestions re easy, inexpensive alternatives to the cheap wall wart SMPS?

Plug it into a separately earthed mains ring.
If you don't have that, then better put your iPhone and all the other sh*t to eBay just as well.
haha
Or charge them elsewhere or outside of music listening.

Quote
- Peter, any reason you have both galleries and a playback drive?  What is the difference, if any, between the functions each performs?

Galleries are Meta Data from the original music albums. This Meta Data can be drawn as many times as you like in all genres or other categories of your liking (so, an album can be stored under Jazz and Women (etc.) at the same time. They end up like normal folders. From the Galleries you can acces your music on as many disks as you like but see one "pile". Or any pile of your defined category (genre).
Galleries are to be stored on the fastest "read" drive you have, usually an SSD. This way you can select your albums by the fastest means, the disks where the music is being much slower.

I hope it is clear !
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Jud
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 04:06:20 am »

Hi Jud - I'll try ...

Quote
- Would a USB3 drive rather than the USB2 drive to store music (with a cheap wall wart SMPS) make a difference, since I am not using the music storage drive as the playback drive?

No and Yes.
swoon
No because the Playback Drive should determined the SQ, Yes because of reasons Paul's post implies. But generally think like : the less interfaces/devices you have actively running, the more you will be able to guide SQ towards your taste.
But also : I don't care much because it's an undoable thing for me, so I seek my tweaks elsewhere.
Did this help ? I highely doubt it.

Quote
Any suggestions re easy, inexpensive alternatives to the cheap wall wart SMPS?

Plug it into a separately earthed mains ring.
If you don't have that, then better put your iPhone and all the other sh*t to eBay just as well.
haha
Or charge them elsewhere or outside of music listening.

Thank you, that actually is very helpful.  I will look at how many USB devices I have and decide whether shutting off mobo USB is desirable.  Though it's occasionally nice to use the mobo-connected USB ports on the front of the computer case for convenience.

As for the separately earthed mains ring (or as we say, separately grounded circuit), I will tell you one little story about our electrical contractor:  When we had a new front door put in a little over a year ago, there was a 4-switch wall plate next to the door that had to have the circuit breakers switched off so the workers would be safe.  3 of the switches were on the same circuit breaker as the closest lights and switches - so, logical.  But the 4th switch behind the same wall plate was on a circuit breaker that took us forever to find, because everything else it controlled was in a back bedroom on the second floor, as far away from the front door as it was possible to get.  So perhaps the receptacle I have the external drive SMPS plugged into is on a completely different circuit than the computer, but then for all I know the computer may be on the same circuit as the septic tank pump and whenever anyone flushes, there goes my sound!
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Win 7 64-bit; i7-950@3.07GHz; 16GB RAM; OS on SATA 6GB/s SSD; AIFF files on external FW HDD; XXHE and Playback Drive on separate RAMdisks; no page file; Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/preamp; PSE Studio IV amp; Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers or Etymotic Research ER-4P in-ear monitors.  XXHE 0.9z-8-3a settings for the moment: Peak Extend; Arc Prediction; Redbook files upsampled 2x; KS Adaptive Mode; Phase Alignment off; buffer=512; Straight Contiguous; Playerprio=Low; ThreadPrio=RealTime; Unattended; OS minimized; all services off; Q1=17, factor=2; SFS=2.1; XXTweaks=Ultimate; Time Performance Index=Not the best.
PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 09:13:52 am »

"Anyone needing the toilet soon ? if so, go now please." Sometimes we receive such a question, but it's always women asking them. But times will change !!

LOL
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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