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Author Topic: Too much Bass !  (Read 19180 times)
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PeterSt
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« on: December 08, 2014, 10:41:43 am »

Hey ...

I am happy to announce that I finally achieved what I have have always been looking for : a bass how it is perceived at concerts. Think electric bass to understand what I am talking about. You know, those guys with their own amplification and speaker(s). Always unfair ...

I post this in the Orelino/Orelo board while actually it is a NOS1a tweak. But without the speakers nothing would have worked. Or maybe - I can't tell really.

What I am talking about is hammering of the vibration of the low frequency strings onto your body. Easily up to 150Hz (mind you, the higher the more difficult to even perceive the individual vibrations).

What has happened is that I managed to now have so much power (think current) in the bass that together with the speed of the woofers something comes forward that at least I never experienced : that hammering of the vibrations onto you. And this in undistorted fahsion, unlike at the concert.

Finally !

Of course the sound can't be explained, but I'll try to bring it across the other way around;
Supposed we are able to add bass (level), then with a good speaker this doesn't readily show as colouration but merely as that deep down earth low. Also, when all is quite well for our system, this also does not show standing waves because of too much bass. It will make the sound more dark and brown and a first merit (or not) is that the higher frequencies will be overwhelmed. So it can make a too harsh system sound more friendly.

But Orelino/Orelo MKII owners already know that this does not satisfy in the long term. The sounds are too much of the same and possibly dynamics are sacrificed; we tried it and we all went back (to the straight response curve so to speak).
What I have at hand is totally different;

With the experience of adding bass level, now think that nothing of this kind has happened, but that the individual vibrations of the tone remain as straight and separate but that the amplitudes of those "waves" have risen. This is not the same as the "add bass level" experience, because in that case nothing is done to the separation. This is to be read as : this already wasn't optimal (I know now !) and you won't improve there when making it louder. However, when we are able to turn a more flat wave into a more firm one, then the peaks of it become audibly better. Still hard to explain, but think that originally the peaks are flattened because of too less current and more current brings them up. Or from the "add bass level" perspective : when that is done, the general level will go up, but the peaks will flatten even more because too few current is too few current even more then.

Oh, it is not about current at all - this was just my visualisation of it.

This is just another new dimension (again). So, I take it that really nobody has ever heard this (and I mean world wide) and the least what will come to you is an open drooling mouth of what the heck now happens that this is possible. So the sheer physical thing. But I better say physics thing because once again you can not see how it is possible that this remains without standing waves and the whole room not messing up - or what about not collapsing. And seriously, if you feel the force of this then you start to wonder how the speakers are not falling over because the force they create. Think one (DC) blast forward of the drivers, and they may fall backwards. That sort of thing.

Yes, what a gag. And this time this super bass is not detrimental to highs / dynamics, because it is not a general "low" which is added. Only vibe.

What did I say ? a gag ?
swoon

So we thought we could get tired of wrong highs, right ? or too much detail, same thing. Well, try this ...

I already have it under control somewhat but without attention you may need a kidney belt. You know, how motor crossers keep the kidneys in place. Uhm, I think this is just plane dangerous. You can feel this is not for human beings and when subject to it for too long something may fall apart inside of you. I don't know really, but the response you have yourself to this is like being protective to a desease. Nervosa.

Nervosa as a mere medical (Latin) term :
The psychological addiction to a behavior, belief, or habit that effects the body via the nervous system, or the mind.



Maybe by now I am not so much interested in this bass sound but merely in the indeed physics aspects of how it can happen. Or, whether something may be just wrong. So mind you, yesterday was my 7th day of this and at day 4 I was so fed up with it that I wanted to throw it out. But if we think a bit of our long Windows 8 experience and how to get that right ... I even read a few pages of that "My first Windows 8 experience" topic to get ideas for improving. And I think yesterday I managed. Well, in controlling it.

Anyway, if we start with the speaker; If you had asked me what had to happen to let it perform like it now does, I would have said : add 2 times the woofer surface at least and then still I couldn't have guessed.

If you ask me : what about the Blaxius interlink ? then my answer is : I undoubtely feel that this is required. So without what the Blaxius does for the base this wouldn't have gone anywhere (is thus my feeling).

The amps ? I have no clue. How in the world can happen such a thing without not first adding 10 amperes of current. That kinf of thing. But this in itself means that something must have behaved quite inefficient in there. Nothing strange for what we are used to, but think about that flattened wave which is flattened first and always, and which is how more current can improve on that - but what when it is attacked in the base ...

And the base in this case is the NOS1a. Yes, the "a" is crucial here and without that no dice for 100% sure.
Anyway it is here where this better wave is created and it goes in a fahsion I could predict in advance. But to this extent ? no, I could not guess that.

While I know I am leaving you in the dark I can tell you that this is about preciseness. Remember my NOS1 floating on water and why ? well, think in that realm.
But this is how I write posts like this, so later I can read my own thinking and possible rubbish and get ideas from it when in trouble elsewhere. This is exactly how I tamed the thing to a degree which is sort of acceptable. Footers !

To summarize the lot : what has happened is that the NOS1a became 10x or 100x or whatever more accurate than it already was. Think the whole chain now, so amplifiers, speakers and the Blaxius interlink ahead of it; all made for accuracy. But now the base ... the DAC. So I am fairly sure that while the whole chain has been optimized for that accuracy (like "no-reflections" as our latest), that when now the real base is optimized suddenly all the work on the remainder of the chain comes forward.

And so the whole d*mn chain is now so accurate that it requires obfuscation to not let it be robots (yes, about that Windows 8 little subject Wink).

But it is far from easy;
While yesterday it came to me that I could decrease the accuracy with more soft footers, that readily worked out. But careful, because now I am talking about the highs which are way more accurate just the same, up to sheer nasty. Just all too dynamic. Too interesting and tiring.
And yes, rubber ball footers took that away. Good. Too bad that the bass got totally wild from that. And here too, nothing about too bassy or not accurate or anything that would happen before with the rubber balls; no, that pounding bass got twice as "worse" because of it. Totally nothing wrong and again so much more interesting ... but after an hour you are dead. All shaken up.

Ok, I ended up with some "in the middle" footer material and played with that another two hours, only with open mouth how things now sound. No kidney belt needed much, but, a flavour. Yeah, this is odd, because if suddenly all lower frequencies show this clearly audible vibrating, it is not only a new dimension, but also something which happens in everything. And now it is a flavour. Or at least it will be until I think it is normal.

If this really is right it is the biggest step I ever made. But let's keep in mind - maybe it is not right at all. Or maybe it takes a year to get it right ...

This afternoon I will start decreasing the (DSP) bass level. Say with so much less that my rubber balls can be under the NOS1a and obfuscation is maximised while bass pounding is acceptable. From there I should be able to try all kind of footer combinations to optimize and which is also about the highs. I could even be as mad as getting my aquarium out again ...

Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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manisandher
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 12:21:13 pm »

Ha... I haven't been on the forum for a while, just took a quick look, and was confronted with this:

If this really is right it is the biggest step I ever made.

Hey, you know, they're running out of Nobel Prizes up there in Sweden!

One thing that came to my mind was why not use long Blaxius cables like I don and take the PC and NOS1a down into your basement. You have everything in place for this, right? If nothing else, it will give you and idea of how things sound with no feedback to the NOS1a. Might be a useful baseline/reference for further footer investigation with the NOS1a back in situ.

Mani.
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Office System:
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PeterSt
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 01:04:30 pm »

Oh boy ...

OK, let's say that things can go too fast for me; Hardly got used to the one tweak and the next announces itself already.
So Yes, it must have been this morning in bed that I was thinking about creating that extra long pair of Blaxius exactly for the reason you mention, Mani.
But I already forgot about it ...

On the other hand ...
When my long post about this was actually finished, I added the "NOS1 floating" sentence. 10 minutes after I posted it, I thought about something not being consistent. And it is the same mistake as thinking about the NOS1a being in the basement :

That obfuscation is for now a requirement. This is a bit tough to think over (so no Nobel Prize in sight) because it is contradictionary to how we normally think. So first the lot is now too accurate (think back on Windows 8 early eras) and how to fuzzy that up. And (sadly) no XXHighEnd dials will do much (though sure I set them so early Windows 8 solution settings).

Still the basement idea could be the better one, but now assumed that the cabinet also does a few things herself. So think a pile of capacitors vibrating (they do) or even the oscillator(s) may vibrate (I never investigated that but I think they will at microscopic levels). Point is a bit (too) : I am not so sure that it is the music hammering on the cabinet that thus needs damping; what sure could happen though is that the floor works its way up to the DAC and now oscillation occurs in those lower frequencies. And well, if that occurs it does a mighty fine job (as it seems to me at this moment) but it also would be very very wrong. And *that* now can be proven with the basement idea. And I didn't think about exactly that ...

Oh, I just realize ... The audio PC must go down there as well. Otherwise USB little cable problems. Well, you know ...
Happy
Hey, thanks. I keep on being so happy about not being alone with all this stuff. Nobel Prizes often go to more than an individual. Not sure how large the group is allowed to be ...
Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 11:05:02 pm »

Peter, I think that you are right about internal resonances affecting the NOS1a as well as the external musical vibrations.  You may remember a while ago we talked briefly about isolating the dac clocks on some form of suspension within the NOS1a in an effort to attenuate some mechanical vibration.

But the footers that you are experimenting with would largely be decoupling the NOS1a from vibrations that come via an excited floor would they not?  I think that the footers would have little effect on internal resonances, so getting the NOS1a into the basement away from the pressure waves of playback is a good start to the experiments (although you have been experimenting for some time now it seems).

Anthony   
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Audio Chain
Stealth MachII PC >> Lush USB 1.5m >> NOS1a G3 B75, Driver v1.0.4 (4ms) >> Placette Active Linestage >> 6 way active horn speakers (Single Ended Triodes)
PeterSt
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 10:01:10 am »

Anthony ... Yes.
But like with determining the best fluid (for floating) appeared to be an undoable job, a "clock suspension" is as undoable. I mean, everybody can take some foam or whatever material which is suspected to suspend or damp etc., but in my personal view there's much more to it to do it well, and I don't see people working on these matters in well fasion. Like with the fluid, and the people with the (math) knowledge can't even start thinking about it.
But I have a few ideas ...

For now I decided to not bring the lot to the basement and instead try to get the merits of what's happening at this moment. So some 3.5 hours again and I love what I hear. This was not so AT ALL a few days ago, and all I changed was some footers. The change - especially after my secret tweak - is so drastic that it should be an explicit target itself by now.

One addition which should be off topic but I think is not :

The NOS1(a) is always shipped with some plastic protective little footers. Install guide tells to pull them off and replace with your own. Today, 50 "a" upgrades further, we notice that almost everyone leaves them under.
And actually this has merit when I think about the material used for them. It would be fairly close to my ideas about that.
And then to think I never used them myself ...

Anyway, although this topic is not about it, I start to feel that footers can do tricks which are not possible by other means. Just think simple : a cable with reflections sounds totally different than a cable without. Super logic (once you have a little technical insight). Now this is about mechanical reflections. In itself not new of course, but I feel we can utilize it. Abuse it, so to speak.

So this is how I deliberately did not bring the lot to the basement because I seem to see a new little project : footer tricks. So if I put under those rubber balls (which never ever worked for longer than 2 minutes - that bad !) and I perceive a killing bass of it (remember, vibes - all very straight/stiff/good) then it can well be that my floor is interacting with the speakers and from there the DAC and maybe even oscillator is influenced, but as long as I see it for the better, why not exploit it. Will come with screw driver so adjustment to own flavour is possible !
This is not-normal you know. It is just something crazy new and how could I know in advance that my secret tweak could incur for this.

And you know, right during the writing of the last sentence I already (think to) know how to do this and make it adjustable right on the spot. Next I will do is handing out some instructions how to make it and ... watch my tomorrow's post in here ...

Peter

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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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manisandher
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 11:47:07 am »

... but as long as I see it for the better, why not exploit it. Will come with screw driver so adjustment to own flavour is possible !

Hey, next you'll be experimenting with tubes/valves in the NOS1a... "as long as it's for the better"...

Luckily, I'm working from home all day tomorrow, so will be waiting with bated breath for instructions on your new tweak. I'm not sure whether the tweak requires some mechanical feedback from the speakers to be effective, but as I don't have any feedback at all (the NOS1a 10m away in my basement in a pretty much sound-proofed room), my experience might provide you with additional info on what's going on. (Though there's no way I'll be taking the PC and NOS1a up into the main room to make a detailed comparison.)

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.10 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=0.69 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5-cloned mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Mach II (with Nick's clock upgrade) -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a G3 -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 01:06:57 pm »

Haha. But no, there won't be anything you can do on your side.
My "construction" is being made right now. And in adjustable fashion. yes

So not to forget : I applied something else first, and you don't have that. Can be read as "can't have". Not really true of course because it is still so that everything I do/try I won't do for myself only.

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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PeterSt
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 12:03:12 pm »

So ...

The construction worked out like a charm. The result ?
swoonswoon
nea

OK, I realize that I am stuck with further explanations because I just don't like to tell what I did. But let's say I was trying a better low phase noise oscillator. Anyway, something which now is more prone to vibrations just because it is finer detailed. So finer detail is more easy to disturb. Something like that.
Could create that super bass to my belief, with the notice that this was not the target at all. But anyway that happened and changing footers changed all.

Side note : What I really did for this tweak is not important. But what I found out from there, I think is.

So instead of bringing the lot to the basement to prevent all from vibrations, I merely thought to utilize the phenomenon and made an adjustable damping mechanism. Haha, you see whole cabinets hanging on something, right ? No, wrong. What I did was making a suspension for PCBs to the best of my senses. I say "senses" because it is all about that - the intuitively knowing what takes out vibrations and what passes them on and that for the weight involved (which is about nothing in this case).
Now start thinking about no coupling with large vibrating surfaces (like floor) BUT sound vibration impact itself. You can feel there's a relation, right ? So the more free floating the more sound impact and the more coupled to a stiff surface the less sound impact. What would be better, with already the super bass experience in mind from the coupling to the vibrating floor ...

Oh man, what did I laugh two days ago when I put on a first tune. It really really was within 5 seconds that I shouted "now all is broken !!". Nobody heard that, but a few minutes later someone said to me "he dad, you know about those discjockeys with such mixer sliders, and when they pull such a slider all the way to the left ? that's how it sounds now".

The guy had it completely right. A whole band of frequency had just disappeared. And I am very serious if I say that it sounded like the mid driver of both speakers was taken out of order. UN-BE-LIEV-A-BLE.
Envision : Accidentally I put up some orchestral work and what I heard was a bit of rumble plus very strange sounding highest frequencies. Those high freqencies was what I noticed. Ok. After 4 seconds a hit occurred which made me say in the 5th second that now all was broken, because this hit was so loud that something had to be wrong from that view alone. But what really happened was that all the mid of other instruments just-was-not-there. Not at all !! And that hit was a low frequency one, and that still worked. As the highs did (though in strange fashion).

And all I did was having this PCB floating in air as much as possible (also think of the complexity of wires going to it and which are not allowed to couple as well).



When you see (ok, hear) such a thing happening, you start to think of the smallest micro detail of electronics needing something like a good grip to push away from. A bit difficult to say in English for me, but if you'd stand on a plateau with weels under it and you start to sprint forward, the car will go backward and your energy is lost in the car's movement. So like a capacitor which actually vibrates (say to do its job) but when not fixed very well, it will shake and can't produce its energy the best.

I am sure that I could bring across the "no mid" story, if you only believe in that this really was so and so bad (so much nothing of it). Well, then in the same realm I can talk about power. I mean, if we talk "energy" anyway ...
There was no power in anything. No snap. Not alive. Totally uninteresting. At some stage I said "doh, this is all background music now". Of course I was thrown back a "why do you play background music so loud then ?" but that's another story.



I am not sure the "energy" thing is the real story. I mean, I can also envision that some electronics in there work on the frequency of the music itself. Think D/A chips which create the music in the end. Now what if at the same frequency this feeds back to air and let move the lot while this unmeasurable movement creates anti-sound. So just cancellation. But this in a delayed fashion, depending on the frequency. Like a super low frequency will never be able to oscillate (cancel) with it because the PCB wouldn't be swinging at 30Hz etc. So that frequency stays. But 1-2KHz ? possibly. And the very high frequencies ? no again because the PCB would need to move too fast (read : won't do it). In the mean time the high frequencies are disturbed because sure the thing is moving on the lower frequency (the 1-2KHz).

Back to the super bass;
Undoubtedly the forceful lower frequencies are captured by my floor and feed back to the DAC when that's coupled to that floor. All it needs now is a rythm of (about) the same frequency with a "node" which doesn't cancel but add, and there you have it. Quite undistorted bass but emphasized and exactly in that stiff really vibrating fashion (so not low sound only).

As you can see I am able to explain both phenomenon by the same means. And those who were there when the floating on water experiment happened : do remember that this was all about eliminating the influence from BOTH floor and sound through air. Quite complex matter.

Because I (FWIW) can explain both floor and through air happenings through the same means, it should not be so difficult to really make something out of it. Something tunable. And realy realy really, it is so super shocking if you can see what it can do. So whether that pounding bass or completely removed mid. Thus the least we should say at this moment is that there's no single way that all by accident is right in our listening rooms. Or how putting your DAC in the basement can be wrong as well. Wrong to the sense of the feedback (from whatever) required to make something work which does not work on its own and it's only that we did not see that yet. Think a speaker driver which at least needs a baffle ...

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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christoffe
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 01:36:12 pm »


And those who were there when the floating on water experiment happened : do remember that this was all about eliminating the influence from BOTH floor and sound through air. Quite complex matter.


Hi Peter,

great writing!! good

Vibrations: What about the trafos inside the NOS1?

Joachim
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PeterSt
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 01:41:33 pm »

Yes ... Not that they vibrate that I can hear or feel, but at these microscopic levels ... undoubtedly.

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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