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Author Topic: SFS: How low is too low?  (Read 5326 times)
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boleary
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« on: January 05, 2016, 01:20:47 pm »

Set SFS to .02 --lowest setting possible-- and I was able to play redbook at 8x upsampling without an issue. Sounded fantastic. Have to increase the SFS for Hi Res. In the past when I went lower than .36 with red book I'd have issues, clicking noises, but they have, it seems disappeared????
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *1.0,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 01:40:06 pm »

Haha, I guess I need to allow for lower again.

Coincidentally I have been working on that a few days ago. In the program I mean. So now I gradually am lowering the SFS for Windows 10. Yesterday I was at 0.10 and I don't know yet how more low I can go. But 0.10 wasn't possible before. Day before yesterday was 0.11 and yesterday sound better again (at least that is how I perceived it).

Still, W10 is inmensely more slow. I mean, starting up XXHighEnd takes two times longer at least, compared to W8. And there's this strange difference in processor frequency speed (I forgot, but IIRC W10 goes down to 220MHz where W8 shows 430MHz).

I hope this is not off topic, but since I began explicitly working on enabling the lower SFS for W10 *and* it now sounds better the lower I (can) go ... (without Intona it started to bite).

Please keep in mind that I changed the program (say 2.05). So supposed that your 0.02 coincidentally is at the limit, then now I expect something like 0.005 to be your limit.

Peter
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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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boleary
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 01:59:48 pm »

Thanks Peter, will download the latest version tonight. Was hoping you would set the program so the SFS could go lower than the .02!
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *1.0,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
PeterSt
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 02:06:44 pm »

Brian,

The latest version does not allow any lower SFS than you have there. Or more honestly - a little (because I started my "lowering project" a couple of weeks ago, continuing that 3 days ago, afer 2.04 came about).

2.05 will be the real thing for that, but 2.05 will only be at the OS-from-RAM supplied disks (which you ordered). I expect the disks (SSDs) to ship next week.
For the normal public it will be 2.06 and by then it probably is March with in between some other festivities. Hips - oops

Peter

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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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KnB
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 09:47:35 pm »

On my xx pc I can go to 0.05, 0.04 gives noise.
Could not go that low without Intona. What an improvement  Happy
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Phasure system: XXHighEnd stealth Mack II LPS PC - Clarixia 30cm/Intona USB isolator/Clarixia 1m - NOS1a 75B Dac - Blaxius BNC IC - Orelo mkII

Win 10 14393 - Xeon E5 2050v4 hyperthreading on 24 core - XX 2.06b - min OS - Music on LAN - Adaptive 4096 - Allow format change - Core 3/5, low, Real time - Clock res 0.5 ms - XTweaks 43,100,1,0,1 - Boost at xxhighend startup - SFS 0.12,  max 120 SC - Incl garbage - Copy to xx - Always clear proxy - Use remote desktop - Use touch facility - Stop desktop/remaining/wasapi services - Keep LAN - Use remote desktop - OSD text - Show as wallpaper - At attended
Q1,3,4,5,xQ1; 14,1,1,1,10
Custom filter 705600 high

Driver 1.04; USB buffer 16ms
briefremarks
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2016, 05:18:05 am »

Trying to understand if the general recommendation is to go as low with SFS as you can with reliable playback?  I'm still on W8 with SFS at 4.00.  I have tried lowering it, and can reliably play with it lower, BUT I have not liked the sound.  Low SFS on my setup sounds smeared (loss of focused imaging) with more reverberation in a bad way.  I'll try again with some testing over the weekend.  Wondering what experiences others still on W8 have.
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Audio PC: Stealth PC; RAM-OS W10 14393.0. 
XXHE version 2.09.
Music Server: XXHE PC, RDC to Audio PC
XXHE settings: Q1 30x40, Q3/4/5 1/1/1, SFS 20.0 (Max 120), Clock Res 15ms, Driver Buffer 4ms
Audio PC -> Lush USB cable -> NOS1(a,75B, G3) -> Blaxius cables (BNC) -> Orelo Mk II active speakers
PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 10:19:17 am »

Ramesh,

I forgot but I am almost sure I had it on 4.00 with W8. This is for a reason of course although maybe only my ears determined it. So I also forgot what others said about it. But all talk is in the forum ...

Careful, because it took a small year before there was consensus about W8. So all (talk) prior to that is not reliable (mine also not).
The moment I started to talk about "switching supplies" (and them removed from the room), things got stable and judgements became reliable.

Peter
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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Scroobius
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2016, 09:28:24 pm »

Quote
I'm still on W8 with SFS at 4.00.  I have tried lowering it, and can reliably play with it lower, BUT I have not liked the sound.

It is some while since I have been on W8 and IIRC I had SFS at around 4 then. However now on W10 I am at SFS 0.12. Previously on W10 I could not get SFS below around 2 without the sound developing a hard edge. However, I installed IMDISK (RAMDISK) and ran XX in RAM. That made a difference in that I could run at significantly lower SFS without the sound getting edgy. I have not attempted to go lower as it sounds fine now. Also with RAM OS coming soon I am not inclined to fiddle with settings.

Paul
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W10-14393.0 - RAM Disc XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2040v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores)* @~720MHz, 32GB, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = *1* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *3.0*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0/ Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter low(12220) 705600 / -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 70cm -> Phisolator -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink -> Orelino MkII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
doublelife
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 02:00:18 pm »

I'm just wondering in the 'Settings' menu where SFS is specified, why would you want to put both a lower and upper bound value in, rather than just a single low value (as low as your system will allow)?

Paul
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PC  i7 / W10 10074 (x64) / hyperthreading ON (12 cores) / 32GB RAM / XX - OS on separate dedicated 256GB SSD - XXHighEnd: 2.03 / Engine#4 Adaptive / 4096 / Q1=14  / xQ1=10 / Q3,4,5=0/1/0 / SFS=4-120 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 1.0  / Scheme 3-5 / 16x Custom / Peak Extend = OFF / Unattended / Minimize OS / Phase Alignment = OFF / XTweaks = 43, 100, 1, 1, 1 > 24/768 NOS1a 75B async USB DAC driver v1.0.4 1ms > KGSSHV Carbon amp > Stax SR-009
PeterSt
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 03:42:14 pm »

Hi Paul,

Good question; hopefully the answer is also good :

The Max right away reserves the contiguous memory (at the first time playback is initiated for the boot session). If that would not happen, you'd be unable to let grow the SFS later. Thus, during testing what SFS you like best, you must be able to "play around" with it (set some larger, set smaller);
Once you have found your setting (more definitive, say) you can set the Max equal to the SFS setting itself, as it will consume the least memory then (the amount reserved is now equal to the amount used).

Do notice that the Max itself may influence SQ, as you can sort of force the system to be low(er) on memory by means of setting a crazy high Max SFS.

Regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - November 13, 2017 (2.09)
XXHighEnd Mach II Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon E5 2640v4 with Hyperthreading On (20 cores) @~720MHz, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *40* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *15ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.90*  (max 120) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 43 / Nervous Rate = 100 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering Highest for 705600* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (*8ms*) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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