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Author Topic: Problems with 24/96 WAV files from the newest version  (Read 9449 times)
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LydMekk
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« on: February 25, 2008, 09:54:58 pm »

When trying to use the latest version of XX to play a 24/96 WAV file from 2l.no, see link for download below, XX crops up an error window with "Wrong stream status(1)""OK".

My external Lexicon DAC supports up to 24/96 digital S/PDif in from other programs/sources without problems. I usually play 16/44 in Double and Upsample on (88Khz) without problems from XX.

http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

Download yourself and try. The 310MB file.

Another thing, why do you restrict selection of 24 or 32bits to 32 when choosing f.ex. 24/96 or 24/192 as DAC supports? Most DACs support 24bit, not 32.

Btw, PC->XFi Elite Pro->S/PDif->Lexicon MC-12B. Newest version drivers and software. Vista Ultimate.
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Dedicated PC - E6850 @ 3.6G - 8GB - 7TB - W7-64 Ultimate - Q=14,0,0,0,0 Noinv DoubleON - Anti Image - Pros Scheme 3 - Player/ThreadPrio Realtime - Volume 0db - Lexicon MC-12B Pro/Pre/DACs - HighEnd 7.1 System - All formats supported. XX=0.9y-8c, attended and unattended(!). Creative XFi Elite Pro, DAC is 24/96 and 32 bits is ticked.
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 12:53:46 am »

Hi,

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=367.msg2430#msg2430 yes

Quote
Another thing, why do you restrict selection of 24 or 32bits to 32 when choosing f.ex. 24/96 or 24/192 as DAC supports? Most DACs support 24bit, not 32.

What do you mean by "restrict" ? I don't restrict that ? ... or I don't understand what you mean ...
Both means of transporting data to a 24 bit DAC are supported, but so far I did not meet a DAC really accepting the 3-byte transport means. Still, it is just in there ("DAC needs 24 bits").

If you mean the Analysis function ... that just tells what your DAC supposedly accepts ... the 24 or the 32 transport means. I don't do that, your DAC does, *OR* what Vista Exclusive Mode makes of it ! So far, when it tells that the 24 bits transport means is "supported" it's not really true ...

So ... can you be more clear please ? but keep in mind your test 96/24 file; it's just no good (officially !).
Peter

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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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LydMekk
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 02:37:30 am »

Also tried Linns free test files (24/48), among them some WMAs. Converted these to standard WAV by NCH Switch program and the finished WAV plays fine in MP11. Playing them in XX gives only a loud hiss. When XX comes to the end of the files it crashes in Vista giving out a standard Vista Application crash message, listing versions of .dlls etc.

http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-downloads-testfiles.aspx
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Dedicated PC - E6850 @ 3.6G - 8GB - 7TB - W7-64 Ultimate - Q=14,0,0,0,0 Noinv DoubleON - Anti Image - Pros Scheme 3 - Player/ThreadPrio Realtime - Volume 0db - Lexicon MC-12B Pro/Pre/DACs - HighEnd 7.1 System - All formats supported. XX=0.9y-8c, attended and unattended(!). Creative XFi Elite Pro, DAC is 24/96 and 32 bits is ticked.
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 03:03:51 am »

Error message:


* feil2.jpg (41.77 KB, 640x413 - viewed 886 times.)
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Dedicated PC - E6850 @ 3.6G - 8GB - 7TB - W7-64 Ultimate - Q=14,0,0,0,0 Noinv DoubleON - Anti Image - Pros Scheme 3 - Player/ThreadPrio Realtime - Volume 0db - Lexicon MC-12B Pro/Pre/DACs - HighEnd 7.1 System - All formats supported. XX=0.9y-8c, attended and unattended(!). Creative XFi Elite Pro, DAC is 24/96 and 32 bits is ticked.
LydMekk
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2008, 03:07:30 am »

Results of DAC test with sound cards S/PDif set to 96Khz:

Start Audio Device Analysis Exclusive Mode support
046FFD38

    Supported : 2|16|44100|176400|4
    Supported : 2|24|44100|264600|6
    Supported : 2|32|44100|352800|8
    Supported : 2|16|48000|192000|4
    Supported : 2|24|48000|288000|6
    Supported : 2|32|48000|384000|8
    Supported : 2|16|88200|352800|4
    Supported : 2|24|88200|529200|6
    Supported : 2|32|88200|705600|8
    Supported : 2|16|96000|384000|4
    Supported : 2|24|96000|576000|6
    Supported : 2|32|96000|768000|8
Not supported : 2|16|176400|705600|4
Not supported : 2|24|176400|1058400|6
Not supported : 2|32|176400|1411200|8
Not supported : 2|16|192000|768000|4
Not supported : 2|24|192000|1152000|6
Not supported : 2|32|192000|1536000|8
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Dedicated PC - E6850 @ 3.6G - 8GB - 7TB - W7-64 Ultimate - Q=14,0,0,0,0 Noinv DoubleON - Anti Image - Pros Scheme 3 - Player/ThreadPrio Realtime - Volume 0db - Lexicon MC-12B Pro/Pre/DACs - HighEnd 7.1 System - All formats supported. XX=0.9y-8c, attended and unattended(!). Creative XFi Elite Pro, DAC is 24/96 and 32 bits is ticked.
Leo
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 07:46:31 am »

I can play both iTrax and Linn 24/96 files without problem with XX, but the 2L Norwegian file from the first post in this thread will not play. As Peter said.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 09:27:54 am »

Let me try to explain a bit, but please *also* try to understand somewhat Wink It is important for your trials.

First of all, and as you will recall, even WMP itself allows for ripping to a header format which is not any official standard. That it *then* can play that back itself is nothing else but logic. It is still plain wrong. This is just an example, only slightly related to your topic here.

Then, that "a" player allows for playback of, say, 96/24 files, does not tell that it utilizes the 24 bits. Mind you, you wouldn't be able to discern if you don't know what to look for. When the lower 8 bits (LSB's) are cut during play back, you must play way loud to get that into the picture. And the remainder 16 MSB's ... same resolution.
If XX plays such a file, it plays the 24 bits guaranteed, except for tweaking the chain so that it all ends up in a 16 bit DAC, while in advance it wasn't rejecting because the soundcard (!) reports 96/32 as a possibility.

32 ? yes 32, because I expect all DACs to work with 4 bytes (2 words) at a time, and the least siginificant byte is skipped.

Besides the above, I can tweak things so that they work out okay, but are not. This happened with Doubling (and Upsampling) before 0.9u-1. Just mangle with two "parameters" and it totals out right. But the paramaters are still wrong. This "came out" at the necessity to address the soundcard/DAC more officially, and since the parameters now are right (which already happened at 0.9u-0) people couldn't play Double anymore. We now are in the area of Vista Exclusive Mode being buggy, and especially the acceptance of DAC's parameters. If you look at your "analysis" list, you see that *and* 24 bits *and* 32 bits are accepted by your soundcard, which I can guarantee is not true. But, Vista Exclusive Mode accepts it. Now for fun try to get the grasp of this :

Each properly organized 96/24 file will urge for the exact same parameters as your 24 bit analysis entry shows. Physically it would just be correct. BUT IT NEVER CAN PLAY LIKE THAT when the DAC accepts 32 bits only. And here is where it goes wrong in the first place : it needs tweaking. Let's say that the file needs an additional byte per 3 bytes. Without that it can't play because your DAC (or soundcard) can't handle it. I call this "tweaking" but in fact this is a very normal operation. BUT :

Where all really goes wrong, is that very officially the file tells Vista that it needs 96/24 hence "DAC needs 24", and this can never work out for the reasons I told in the above. Still, it is the file telling it ... this is how it's constructed. This, btw, is the reason that the Analysis function needs a file in the playback area. Without that, the whole process won't start, because deep down in kernel mode this file is read for its parameters (with the outcome that looks like one according like of the analysis report). Now, just for fun, and in between the lines again :

I did not start for nothing with mentioning the WMP rips. You know, those rips created by an MS product. Well, that exact same rips are rejected by the deep down kernel whatever again MS program I mentioned above. Isn't that big fun ?

We no slowly get the hunch of what kind of "tweaking" it needs to get things going. So, after things have been approved by a deep down program, stuff is sneakily changed. Same with the oh so normal 96/24 file which can only be accepted as a 96/32 file. As said, making a 32 file of it is a rather normal operation, but in this case the 96/32 also has to be told to the mechanism that will start the DAC running. So, this is another "tweak".

Because what the soundcard/DAC accepts is different from what the official routines for it come up with (this was changed from 0.9u-0 to 0.9u-1) there now is the potential of being able to play, whereas before it just was not. Typicle example : 88.2/24 playback, which is just always rejected by such a deep down routine, while actually the DAC and all can do it. So, this routine is now skipped ...

Very nice ! bit *NOW* it's more up to us. You actually. Because *now* you are able to play things which actually can't. Like hiss ...

Long story, but what it comes down to is what I said already (elsewhere I think), and that is that the Analysis function must actually play. If that works for a combination, we can be safe it works indeed. One thing (and that's why I didn't create it so far), it can't so without your own confirmation "it played allright". Thus, when playing commences, that Analysis program can't see whether it sounds allright or gives hiss only.

wackowacko ?
I think you're okay.
The long story is there to create some understanding in order for yourselves to tweak better. Or, being better able to tell me what you think is going on.
In the end we're helping eachother, because in the end all will just work. Mind you, while it officially can't. In the end I will have tweaked those "wrong" files as well, similar to the 44.1/16 WMP rips. But it takes a loooong time to find what's wrong in those files, which begins with not knowing what officially is written in there. It could even be coverart !

So, this time you most probably were so unlucky to again use a program that makes a format which is not official. Better try the FLACs (from Linn). They work ... (I must be careful with this, because I think I used a FLAC which I converted to WAV by means of Foobar (before XX could play FLACs)).

Anything else ?
 Happy
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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LydMekk
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 02:18:03 pm »

 Happy

Message received and understood!
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Dedicated PC - E6850 @ 3.6G - 8GB - 7TB - W7-64 Ultimate - Q=14,0,0,0,0 Noinv DoubleON - Anti Image - Pros Scheme 3 - Player/ThreadPrio Realtime - Volume 0db - Lexicon MC-12B Pro/Pre/DACs - HighEnd 7.1 System - All formats supported. XX=0.9y-8c, attended and unattended(!). Creative XFi Elite Pro, DAC is 24/96 and 32 bits is ticked.
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