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Author Topic: Crack Detection ?  (Read 34914 times)
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SeVeReD
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« on: March 23, 2008, 07:50:47 pm »

I've found two albums/wav&cue that seem to be affected by this.  Dac is 16/44.1 - No digital volume.
One rip, "Cornershop - When I Was Born For the Seventh Time" plays on 9-u6 fine all the way through.  But on 9-u7 it plays for the first song and then stops and pops player up.  If I then try to play 2nd song (unattended) it plays but with light crackles in the background.  When I played this same wav/cue in Attended mode, it stops after first song playing fine, then pops up a 16 Bit Crack Detect = 13750.  But as mentioned, plays great in 9-u6.
Another rip, "Zero 7 - Remixes" pops a crack warning up for both 9-u6 & 9-u7.  Since I just reformatted I only have these two players and my original, 9-d.  I played "Zero 7 - Remixes" in 9-d and it sounded great; no cracks at all.  I got brave and tried this album without crack protection on 9-u7 and it sound great again; no cracks could be heard.  But I'm a little bit wary to subvert the Crack Detection stuff.
Sssooooo....
Is it ok to go back to old versions of XXHE to play an album that doesn't pass Crack Test on 9-u7 ?  Is there a danger of it making cracks on older versions? or is that just something that's popped up in these recent versions.  The only time I've heard "cracks"/distortion is on that Cornershop album and it wasn't very loud cracks, just crackles following along with the music.  These distortions were not there on 9-u6.
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 08:36:30 pm »

Quote
These distortions were not there on 9-u6

In fact, this is the most interesting. I think I have that Cornershop album, although I can't be sure it is the same pressing (version).

Quote
Is there a danger of it making cracks on older versions?

I don't think so Dave. All is about the "processing" needed to use the Digital Volume and exploiting the larger bit depth (which you can't unhappy).

Btw, I just looked ... is at least your picture of "When I was born" the same ?



* Cornershop.jpg (93.57 KB, 499x499 - viewed 713 times.)
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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SeVeReD
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 08:56:51 pm »

Quote
These distortions were not there on 9-u6

In fact, this is the most interesting. I think I have that Cornershop album, although I can't be sure it is the same pressing (version).

Quote
Is there a danger of it making cracks on older versions?

I don't think so Dave. All is about the "processing" needed to use the Digital Volume and exploiting the larger bit depth (which you can't unhappy).

Btw, I just looked ... is at least your picture of "When I was born" the same ?


Yes, that's it.

I'm not using the volume (set at 0), but I guess it still needs to check for cracks? or processing still gets done?
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 09:19:44 pm »

Yeah, I was thinking about that myself. Answer : No.
Question : Does it trip when you check that Mem box ? If not then I'm doing something superfluous ...

But I'll check with that album we share (later).
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 10:24:02 pm »

Yeah, I was thinking about that myself. Answer : No.
Question : Does it trip when you check that Mem box ? If not then I'm doing something superfluous ...

But I'll check with that album we share (later).
Using 9-u7 "Cornershop" trips crack detection with either Mem box checked or unchecked.  If I play this album using 9-u7 by bypassing/checking-box crack detect then album plays 1st track fine, but then cracks are heard in 2nd track and beyond.  Using 9-u6 "Cornershop" album plays fine in its entirety with no cracks.
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 11:17:22 pm »

Ok. Thanks. I'l try it. sleeping
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 03:26:01 pm »

This is what happens :

1. The Crack Detect does trip on Cornershop, and let's say this is a case of too many too high transients (remember, which officially can be that high, although it is rare;

2. Normally the Crack Detect works per track. In the case of Cue Files though, it works for the whole album. It doesn't matter much really, because the 13750 is way too much to lower the treshhold for tripping (as how I use it), which comes down to 20 "cracks" per track, or in this case (15 tracks) 300 for the whole album.
Of course the detection should work per track, but in the Cue File case this just doesn't work so yet. It will though.

3. We don't know which track is causing it (seen 4 below too). BUT, coincidentally the second track indeed seems to contain "ticks" of a very high transient, and which seem not normal to my ears. On the other hand, it goes along with the rythm of the drums ... but otoh again, I don't think it is a drum machine used there.

4. When you'd drag the timer position cursor towards the end of each track (Attended), you would see that at each track boundary the Crach Detect trips. BUT, it does not at the normal start (press Play) of any of the tracks. Conclusion :
Crack detect just does *not* work on Cue Files. Unintentional of course, but only at track boundaries the code concerned is triggered. I can't think of how at this moment, but apparently it just is so.

Is the latter a bad thing ? officially yes. For you not. As I said earlier, with 16 bit output nothing is changed to the code apart from the Digital Volume, and even that you don't use. Also, since the Cue File Brigade rather officially consists one one man only, nobody has to worry.
Btw, *with* the Digital Volume used, the code isn't triggered at all for Cue Filles. That is, I can't get the Crack Detect to trip then.

Lastly, things seem so strange to me (the combinations) that it even could be that the Crack Detect trips on *me* doing something wrong in the code in that situation (Cue Files at track boundaries, and no Digital Volume). Of course this is the main reason why Crack Detect was built in (me just doing something wrong), and maybe I shouldn't be ignorant for that ...

Again for you, nothing to worry about (UNLESS THOSE THICKS I MENTIONED ARE THE RESULT OF BAD CODE), and *IF* others use Cue Files as well, but with more bits in theirs DACs, then please be careful. yes
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 05:57:41 pm »

Quote
1. The Crack Detect does trip on Cornershop, and let's say this is a case of too many too high transients (remember, which officially can be that high, although it is rare;
I have a feeling a lot of my electronic distorted "rock" is not going to pass the test, heh.

Quote
3. We don't know which track is causing it (seen 4 below too). BUT, coincidentally the second track indeed seems to contain "ticks" of a very high transient, and which seem not normal to my ears. On the other hand, it goes along with the rythm of the drums ... but otoh again, I don't think it is a drum machine used there.
Have you played this track using 9u-6 ? The "cracks" aren't there.
Quote
Again for you, nothing to worry about (UNLESS THOSE THICKS I MENTIONED ARE THE RESULT OF BAD CODE), and *IF* others use Cue Files as well, but with more bits in theirs DACs, then please be careful. yes
I'll never understand why more people don't use cue files... just hit the IMG button on the left-side of EAC and you're good to go with all the timing between tracks left intact....plus the whole album in memory,,, no more work for the machine to come in and do in the middle of music)
I don't know about worry,,, but do you think these albums I'm finding not playing on 9u-7, (but playing normally on lower versions), will be able to play on the newer versions of XXHE coming up?  I've already tried ripping a couple in various different ways and they still don't work 9u-7, so I guess that's not it. 
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
PeterSt
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 06:19:19 pm »

It's just program error. Nothing to do but wait.
No better, just switch Crack Detection Off (in your case !).
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 06:35:16 pm »

It's just program error. Nothing to do but wait.
No better, just switch Crack Detection Off (in your case !).
Waiting's good for me!  I'm glad it's just a matter of time; I'm sure I've just scratched the surface of albums that will be affected by this.
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 10:22:57 pm »

09-U7 & 09-U8 16/44.1 no nothing prios set to normal for testing q1 = 14
Keep finding WAV/CUE files in my collection that either crackle after the 2nd song or pop up Crack Detection error.  If I bypass Crack Detection the wav/cue has crackles in it, (like what I hear in Cornershop album).  I started to write down a list of albums as I come across them so I'll remember.. but hard to listen to music when I'm waiting for crackles to happen.

I thought ok, I'll rip a couple of these having trouble to Song Wav files and use No cue file.  They still play back with crackles.  I'm not sure I've mentioned this?  So small individual song wav files with no cue files around are exibiting poor crackling sound.

I loaded up 09-T5 and these same albums (wav/cue or song wavs) sounded wonderful again.

I've only listened today to 09-U8 and before the album starts to crackle they sound great.  But 09-T5 makes me more relaxed at the moment.hehe  anyway!  So am I the only one having trouble?  This seems to be outside cue, big files, or anything... This happens on old rips or new rips.
Maybe my ittlebitty waptop is too small?

edit
Another weird thing I ran into, a few times (like once/twice a listening session) 09-u7/8 would ... like... the musicians would false start but immediately start up again from hiccup, this was usually at the beginning of a song. no distortion, kinda seemless.  If you're listening to rock it might seem in place Happy
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 07:00:43 am »

Just a quick note to mention for the last few versions ( but not sure how far back it goes ) I'm noticing an occassional 'click' just prior to the start of some tracks. It's not a tweeter shattering 'CLICK' but much more subdued and hardly noticeable unless you are sitting down and paying attention ( rather than background music ). I reckon it could be about 40dB down in amplitude.

Thing is, it doesn't seem to be consistent across albums, or even indeed within the same album if played again. I haven't had the time to sit down and nut out exactly where the problem manifests itself yet, and it may turn out to be a specific setting i'm now using. It occurs playing back 16/44.1 content and also 24/96 files I noticed recently.

Nothing to be alarmed at just yet Peter, but thought it worth mentioning in light of others experiences recently.

I'll try and get some more analysis time on this in next few days,

If any others have noticed this 'click' please speak up also.

Cheers all,

Russ

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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 08:29:12 am »

Quote
If any others have noticed this 'click' please speak up also.

Me ... Cool

Thank you for noticing this Russ. I already was that far that it couldn't be coincidence because I never heard it before, but of course it's such a small "tick" (inconsistently present indeed) that it's easy to think it belongs to things. Could be from an LP ...

I will find it ...
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 08:32:39 am »

So am I the only one having trouble?

No you're not the only one. Although I noticed (with 0.9u-7) that if I check 'Mem' then I was able to listen to 16 tracks without a crackle. Haven't been able to compare the same playlist with 0.9u-8 yet.

If any others have noticed this 'click' please speak up also.

Yes I noticed this as well (playing with 0.9u-8). The loud pop I had with 0.9u-7 went away, but now I get a random (lower volumed) click. It only happens after playing multiple songs and if I go back and play the file individually then the click is not there.
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« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2008, 09:49:45 am »

I thought ok, I'll rip a couple of these having trouble to Song Wav files and use No cue file.  They still play back with crackles.  I'm not sure I've mentioned this?  So small individual song wav files with no cue files around are exibiting poor crackling sound.

Dave, please stop looking for more albums that exhibit this; better start listening to those who don't exhibit it. BUT :
I have no technical explanation for this apart from it being real. But I guess that is stupid thinking of me ... yes

I must say honestly that I forgot to look into the fact that the Crack Detect shows nothing at the first track, but does at the second, while it should be so that the complete album is scanned in either occasion. This stinks. This suits your observation about the first track not crackling (at least you did not mention that I think) and the second does. But how in the world can this be correlated to the individual tracks show the crackles as well ?

I have a major stupid idea again :

Let me first tell you how surprised I was that the transients can be as high as I found. So, it is the transients I use for checking for crackles, and believe it or not, it trips when over 20 times a decimal value change of 60000 (!!) has been found (while max can be 65536 for 16 bit data).

Note that I started with a value of 100 to rip upon, because I thought that would do fine. I then ended up with 8000 which could occur over 50 times on one track, and when I found this, I thought I had some news for this world, or IOW I thought now all CD recordings s*ck all over.
Then I asked a recording guy who could know, and he said that transients of close to the full 65536 just could happen. So, I was satisfied with that, and built in the tripping at 60000.
Btw, from pure electrical thinking I can't believe this is right, because a negative voltage near its far end, goes right to positive to near that far end, and that happens within one adjacent sample. Whatever instrument or voice could do that within 0.00002 second ? But the guy said it ...

At this moment I can't tell anymore how many things are wrong at audio playback, but I do know that things can be improved. We claim this is jitter doing that, because we don't know other explanations, but please keep in kind : I already think for a longer time it is not jitter what we're influencing. Or not jitter *only*. Ok, just keep this in mind, in case it becomes important later ...

When I found those huse amounts of decimal 8000 transients, I looked at such a file for confirmation. Btw, the 50000 occasions of decimal 8000 in one track (the 8000 being an 1/8 of the total range) is a relative small amount looking at the number of samples in a whole track. Mind you, there are 44100 in one second, so a 300 second track would contain those steep transients in around 1/300 part of it, totalling to one second, or roughly 150 occasions per second (never mind my math). How can it be so that 150 times per second a transient occurs of which at least I myself cannot imagine how it can happen in nature ?
So, looking at the file - and I often look at files - it indeed showed those "endless" going up (or down) straight voltage changes, but, I never saw them before. Why ? well, because when there are 150 in a second, there are 43950 more normal sample-changes, and the chance to meet a strange one is 0.3%. Also, if you are expeerienced on this, you will know that you'd *never* find such an occasion by accident, which is related to the scale you are looking at, and or the zooming is so small that the peaks won't show, or the zooming is so large that only, say, 10 decimal fits vertically in the window, while we talk about 8000.
Well, since the Crack Detect showed that they are there, and aith some addtional data I knew where to expect the "cracks", I indeed found them. It looks completely ridiculous, and I keep on saying it can't be. On this matter, note that any vibrating source needs a start for a couple of cycles before it comes to full amplitude. Even electrically (like in an amp) this is so, I think.

Rather important side note :
When indeed it is normal that such huge transients exist, upsampling just can not work, meaning :
When a transient with 16 bits comprises of 8000 decimal, you tell me where to split that transient. At 4000 ? at 7000 ? at 100 ? mind you, it happens at 4000 because it is the only thing to "know". This is *very* different when one expect transients so be, say, 20 at max, and the relative error would be infinitly smaller. Also, who says that such a *transient* should be cut ?

Back to my rather pretentious thinking I tried to start this subject with : what if playback implied so much more accuracy (of whatever it is that can happen in the DAC) that we start to hear those "crackles" ? And please keep in mind : those huge transients MUST be heard as crackles. I wouldn't know how to perceive them differently. And they just *are* in the data ...

To put things in the proper perspective : when one such a transient would be there I think it is virtually impossible to hear it. On that matter : 0.00002 seconds is the time one sample takes, and the crackle you hear sure takes longer. This could be caused by nature physics (like ringing), but I don't think so. What I do think, is that only more of them can exhibit as being there, and indeed in the file it's not single spikes showing. It's always more, and it always looks like no accident. So, say that 10 of those become audible, it's only a matter of meeting them at the right place (like in the otherwise coincidentally low amplitude of ambient sound).

Dave, so far I only listened to the second track of that Cornershop album, and as I said before, this didn't sound right to me, *but* it was on the edges of the rythm. Wat does this tell ? bad recording ? something overhoots ?

In order to understand the difference between versions ... things *have* changed, but if all is right, nothing that could incur for something being wrong now. More accurate (in my theoretical perception on things that change sound) yes. The last version (0.9u-8) more than the one before.
I too have been walking to the speaker a couple of times because from a distance I thought I heard a "distortion", but being upclose I thought nea.


All of the above may later turn out to be somepletely senseless, when I find something wrong in the software afterall. But if the latter is not the case, the world news is written in the above : CD recordings s*ck all over, and it only needs more accurate playback to discover it.
However, so far I believe the guy who told me that those transients can exist. But keep in mind : this is what he saw on his DAW, looking at the master before pressing to CD. So in the end he might just have seen the same as I did.


Quote
Another weird thing I ran into, a few times (like once/twice a listening session) 09-u7/8 would ... like... the musicians would false start but immediately start up again from hiccup, this was usually at the beginning of a song. no distortion, kinda seemless.  If you're listening to rock it might seem in place Happy

I believe it, but can't imagine what you exactly mean.
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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