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Author Topic: double & upsampling  (Read 34126 times)
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PeterSt
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« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2008, 09:14:39 pm »

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On another note, I already play the Q1 somewhat higher lately (4) which has a reason of course (and I can play -4 without any problem).

This has to do with the output latency, i mean 1ms is the same for all Q1 settings?
Or it has to do with data output, for example lower q1 sends, (how to say) more "accurate" signal to dac.

The 1ms may vary, and it is not about sending a more accurate signal (I don't think that would be possible). The way I do it influences the DAC though, and it is the DAC that can be more accurate or less. secret

Quote
Another question here has to do with phase. When i hear at -4 region if i don't tick invert phase the sound is very unconfortable.
At +2 or +4 the difference is not so huge, I'm not sure what is better. Is there any explanation for this?

Hahaha, no, not one that I can think of. It is true though, and it is the exact reason the Invert checkbox was created in the first place. It *is* part of the process though, and where you can imagine that there's a scale of being in phase and out of phase - which really is about time alignment - you can imagine that there is one best setting. There's one thing I can tell you : an amount of jitter doesn't behave the same in the high frequencies as it does in the low frequencies (generally, when you have it right for the high frequencies it will be wrong for the low frequencies).
Also, because all is software-incurred yes, while the base for this all can be better and worse, in the earlier versions of XXHighEnd with the Q1 slider, that slider had much more influence on the sound than it has today. The principle of Q1 didn't change, but the software in the base did ...

I hope you're not an engineer, because then you wouldn't believe your own ears ...
Happy
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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PeterSt
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« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2008, 09:32:22 pm »

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I think "digital" is not the right word. I saw in another post someone else use the some word, but for my ears i have a feeling of more analog,detailed and comfortable playback. I dont know if my tube amp has any influence in this.

Yes, it will. But since you're comfortable at Q1 = -4 and for that matter probably didn't reach your limit, you might try the Volume slider at -6dB. There's some indirect trick working in there as well ... evil
(don't go further than -24dB when your DAC plays with 16 bits)

Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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astacus21
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« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2008, 10:37:12 pm »

I ask all this questions just to understand how to handle Q1 and what to expect from this everytime it changes.
For sure many things changes and it's difficult to understand what is better. I understand its also hardware depended, by means that it behaves different as result, with everyones dac, soundcard etc. Also i understand that those settings, behaves different with other recordings. But for sure is less difficult to have a target and try to adjust Q1, to achive your perpose and this is the reason for all the questions.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 11:07:18 pm by astacus21 » Logged

M$ Server 2008 R2 Datacenter x64 engine3 / Q1=-3/ Q2=8 / Q3=24 / Q4=0 / Q5=0/, V=-12 Arc Prediction Upsampling x2,sfs=200,SFS.ini=2.1 Thread Priority Realtime -> onboard Realtek ALC889 SPDIF Coaxial-> 8x TDA1543 Nos Dac -> Earmax Pro Amp -> Senns 650
SeVeReD
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2008, 01:13:43 am »

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...phase...There's one thing I can tell you : an amount of jitter doesn't behave the same in the high frequencies as it does in the low frequencies (generally, when you have it right for the high frequencies it will be wrong for the low frequencies).
Happy

Whenever you throw out the word phase, take it back to thinking about different recordings and their phase differences...(ever wonder why audiophools have their phavorite recordings to show off their equipment ... it's not just recorded well, it also works well with their system phase-wise).  So, that's what I've found a bit.  There are times I've liked up toward 18, many times I find coming back to 14 sounds better, but now I'm trying out around the +4 area,,, I used to be able to go - with earlier versions, but the laptop can't cut it on these versions.... I hear some *analog like crackling* on some recordings at +4,,, (hmm maybe hearing into the recording better? juries out), I think the system starts to stress there.

more rambling thoughts later, but here's toward figuring out where all these q1 settings will take us, and their different sound presentations may be just that.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 06:24:27 pm by SeVeReD » Logged

0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
astacus21
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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2008, 02:44:00 pm »

... you might try the Volume slider at -6dB. There's some indirect trick working in there as well ... evil
(don't go further than -24dB when your DAC plays with 16 bits)

I f i understand well, by doing this i remove 1 bit (or 2 V=-12) of info that contains noise and distortion and is very difficult to hear anyway.
It will be a good idea to set dac is to 44/18 bit, and what it will be the result of this action for this 1 bit?
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M$ Server 2008 R2 Datacenter x64 engine3 / Q1=-3/ Q2=8 / Q3=24 / Q4=0 / Q5=0/, V=-12 Arc Prediction Upsampling x2,sfs=200,SFS.ini=2.1 Thread Priority Realtime -> onboard Realtek ALC889 SPDIF Coaxial-> 8x TDA1543 Nos Dac -> Earmax Pro Amp -> Senns 650
PeterSt
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2008, 03:57:33 pm »

That is correct.

For the program, the 24, 20 and 18 bit settings are the same. This is more for yourselves and to understand what you are setting (because 18 and 20 bits DACs exist).

Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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