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Author Topic: 4GB vs 8GB  (Read 10667 times)
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Telstar
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« on: July 02, 2009, 01:55:23 am »

Somebody said that he heard differences raising the memory up to 8GB, then the differences where gone (diff software so apples and oranges).

Because DDR2 and 3 is dirt cheap nowadays, anyone tried or can try this on his computer?
I planned to get 4GB for my dedicated computer, and with xxhe architecture more shouldnt offer any improvement.

hmmm
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 04:24:09 am »

Quote
Somebody said that he heard differences raising the memory up to 8GB, then the differences where gone (diff software so apples and oranges).

I tried to read it upside down, but still don't understand. Was it too late for you, or is it too early for me ? whistle

Btw, I tried with 0 GB. Completely black. Of course this is a virtue of the memory player. yes
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Telstar
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 09:34:41 am »

I tried to read it upside down, but still don't understand. Was it too late for you, or is it too early for me ? whistle

Btw, I tried with 0 GB. Completely black. Of course this is a virtue of the memory player. yes

Probably me... :D
Anyway i meant physical ram not pagefile.
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
PeterSt
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 10:20:01 am »

No, that is not what I meant. I just can't get what you are saying.

Quote
Somebody said that he heard differences raising the memory up to 8GB, then the differences where gone

You probably don't want to say that differences kept on being there until the boundary of 8GB was surpassed (like from 8-12 GB it didn't matter anymore).

So, just adding more memory makes a difference is your message ? (but what about the 8GB then).

Anyway, to my own (XXHighEnd) experience, using less memory is also good for SQ. But, there may be a technical reason for this, like using less mapping (address space can be indirect). I did't investigate whether this still may apply, but if you think of old Dos days it mattered (tricks to get over the 640MB boundary).
This is one of the reasons the whole memory management was put up side down, and it helped indeed (SQ).

Personally I think it is all too complex to work out, but despite I never tried it, I will believe that stuffing in more memory (without the need to utilize it !!) will improve SQ.

Peter

PS: Just for fun : all these kind of things are peanuts, including XX itself. Come over and listen, and "see" that working on these peanuts is a waste of time (yea yea I mean the DAC)
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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AUDIODIDAKT
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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 03:35:29 pm »

But without those "peanuts" we didn't even had "sliced bread"  Tongue

Doubt everthing belief nothing !

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(Sept 30, 2010)                                                
W7 Ultimate x64 Tweaked/60 GB SSD OCZ Vertex (1.50)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-EXTREME/Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz/OZC Reaper 2x2GB/
Esi Juli@ soundcard (KS)(x2v-v0_978)(Tweaked Coaxial)/Nvidea Geforce 9800 GTX+/750 Watt Zalman ZM-750-HP/100 MB Fiber-Optical Internet/
(XXHighEnd 0.9z-2)
#4Engine, Special Mode, 48 samples, SFS 12MB, DAP, Scheme=3, Q1=1, Q2/Q3/Q4/Q5=30,30,0,0, PlayerPrio=Low, ThreadPrio=Realtime
x-Allow Format Change, x-Stop Services, x-Copy to XX-drive by Standard, x-Start Engine3 During Conversion
Telstar
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 05:13:27 pm »

You probably don't want to say that differences kept on being there until the boundary of 8GB was surpassed (like from 8-12 GB it didn't matter anymore).

Instead that's exactly what i wanted to say Happy

Quote
PS: Just for fun : all these kind of things are peanuts, including XX itself. Come over and listen, and "see" that working on these peanuts is a waste of time (yea yea I mean the DAC)

I'm just waiting for your invitation (and pleas take note that usually i need to book the flight with 1 month advance at least).
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
AUDIODIDAKT
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2009, 04:22:32 pm »

finnaly,

I took my PC apart,
Because still having those BSOD 's everyday

And whatteyouknow - faulty RAM (this going on for 4 to 5 weeks now, OS could have errors too and have to check all my FLAC that I have moved around from disk to disk) Sad

But cannot exactly determine witch RAM or maybe MB slot
Want to make sure witch one is the faulty

When testing all 2GB Ram seperately nothing to be found
Problems start with 2x2GB (now having 6GB and everything is fine and pc is already running 24 hours without problems)

Is there a better way to test this then memtest.exe ?

And can it be that, going from 8GB to 6GB (memory adressed as "Flex" instead of Dual channel interleaved) sound diffferent.
Can't say for sure, but have the feeling it does.
Too short to say. (or maybe it doesn't)

Grtz





Logged

(Sept 30, 2010)                                                
W7 Ultimate x64 Tweaked/60 GB SSD OCZ Vertex (1.50)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-EXTREME/Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz/OZC Reaper 2x2GB/
Esi Juli@ soundcard (KS)(x2v-v0_978)(Tweaked Coaxial)/Nvidea Geforce 9800 GTX+/750 Watt Zalman ZM-750-HP/100 MB Fiber-Optical Internet/
(XXHighEnd 0.9z-2)
#4Engine, Special Mode, 48 samples, SFS 12MB, DAP, Scheme=3, Q1=1, Q2/Q3/Q4/Q5=30,30,0,0, PlayerPrio=Low, ThreadPrio=Realtime
x-Allow Format Change, x-Stop Services, x-Copy to XX-drive by Standard, x-Start Engine3 During Conversion
Telstar
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2009, 07:44:47 pm »

finnaly,

I took my PC apart,
Because still having those BSOD 's everyday

And whatteyouknow - faulty RAM (this going on for 4 to 5 weeks now, OS could have errors too and have to check all my FLAC that I have moved around from disk to disk) Sad

But cannot exactly determine witch RAM or maybe MB slot
Want to make sure witch one is the faulty

When testing all 2GB Ram seperately nothing to be found
Problems start with 2x2GB (now having 6GB and everything is fine and pc is already running 24 hours without problems)

Is there a better way to test this then memtest.exe ?

memtest x86, from bootable cd.
2h at least. One ram bank at a time.

Sorry, there is no better choice. Once i brought two dimms to a shop and let them test cuz i didnt have a working pc at the time. I was lucky that they did it for free Happy One was faulty and i got rma from crucial in <1month. Of course in the meanwhile i already bought other faster dimms and sold the crucials when i got them from rma :D

RAM errors are VERY common, even if you dont overclock them.
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
SeVeReD
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2009, 09:32:50 pm »

I think 8 > 4 is the absolute fact that the extra sticks of mem help cut down on vibration on the MB, And! by plugging up the 'holes'/empty-slots that are usually left open to take in all kinds of 'interference', they/extra memory acts like a shield!!... well then, there you have it. Happy
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
AUDIODIDAKT
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2009, 04:21:51 pm »

just wanted to let you know it doesn't matter for SQ.
2GB, 4GB, 6GB, 8GB, it al sounds good to me.

grtz
Logged

(Sept 30, 2010)                                                
W7 Ultimate x64 Tweaked/60 GB SSD OCZ Vertex (1.50)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-EXTREME/Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz/OZC Reaper 2x2GB/
Esi Juli@ soundcard (KS)(x2v-v0_978)(Tweaked Coaxial)/Nvidea Geforce 9800 GTX+/750 Watt Zalman ZM-750-HP/100 MB Fiber-Optical Internet/
(XXHighEnd 0.9z-2)
#4Engine, Special Mode, 48 samples, SFS 12MB, DAP, Scheme=3, Q1=1, Q2/Q3/Q4/Q5=30,30,0,0, PlayerPrio=Low, ThreadPrio=Realtime
x-Allow Format Change, x-Stop Services, x-Copy to XX-drive by Standard, x-Start Engine3 During Conversion
Telstar
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 09:16:56 pm »

just wanted to let you know it doesn't matter for SQ.
2GB, 4GB, 6GB, 8GB, it al sounds good to me.

grtz


Tnx for feedback.
I suspect that 4G+ sounds better with not tweaked OS, where lots of resident cr*p suck resources.
Logged

(2nd Apr 2018)
Software:
W10 14393 Pro x64 | XXHE 2.10 | MinOS | Q=14x1/0/0/0/0 | SFS 5,19 mixed contiguous | Nervous rate 1 | 4096k buffer |

Hardware:
OrigenAE H5 case | E5300 fanless |  8GB RAM | Winmate DC-DC fanless PSU | OS on SSD | Renesas USB3 pcie card | Belden highspeed usb cable | Audio-gd dac19 NOS with sigxer F1 | My_ref_FE mono amps | Albedo Apex speakers
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