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Author Topic: Dr.DAC2 upsampling, how ?  (Read 8584 times)
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ivo
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« on: October 07, 2009, 12:37:15 pm »

So, it seems like currently there is no sense for me using this version, but if I am mistaken, Peter can you please correct me?:
I use laptop as a source connected via USB to my DAC (http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/106506785/AUDIOTRAK_DR_DAC2_DX_Digital_to.html). So, this DAC over USB supports only 44, 48 and 96 kHz. This means that I cannot use Arc Prediciton on 16/44 material, right? The question then is:
If I keep on using version 0.9y-4 without any up-sampling are there suppose to be any changes upwards the SQ? Have not yet listened to it enough, but would like to now at least what is behind the design.
Other thing: my DAC however supports freqs (44, 48, 88, 96, 176, 192) if used over SPDIF interface. What I need is to buy the external dock (it has SPDIF out) and connect to my SPDIF in at DAC side. If I am not wrong then using this connection I will be able to use Double or Quad + Arc on my 16/44 material. Of course, I have no possibilities to manipulate with any DAC sampling options, but hopefully this connection will bring me at least towards the new great sound introduced with 0.9y-4. Really thinking now of purchasing the dock as feel very touched by comments from others on the increased SQ with 0.9y-4. Thanks.
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Music on internal HDD in FLAC-->LatestXX in QAP + PeakExt Mode[KS,Adaptive,2048,Q1=14,xQ1=1,Sch3,Low,Realtime,15 ms, SFS 2-400, Straight, stop all, MinOS]-->Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64bit-->Intel i5 based laptop [8 GB RAM]-->JKDAC32(HiFace based USB-I2S-DAC)-->Denon PMA-1500AE-->JBL E90 3-way speakers
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 01:39:52 pm »

Yes, I think SQ has increased in general. Also without Upsampling. Fidelio's first post in 0.9y-4 - w00t proves it objectively, I think (him just "complaining" the day before).

About your DAC and 88.2, ... did you actually try it ? I think it just works. Not 176.4/192 over USB of course.
What I would do in your case (because it will be a trial for you) is get a Juli@ and output SPDIF from there. I don't say it will be the best connection, but at EUR 110 or so, it may be "worth" it when it fails for you. If you want to do it better, I'm afraid you will end up at EUR 800 for a Fireface400. Be VERY careful with anything else that shows nicely cheap (TC Connect would be an example), because all kind of anomalies may spring from that (like not being able to auto-switch sample rate from anything up to 96 to above that ... which is what I EXPECT from the chipset).

If I'm well informed even EUR 110 is no joke for you, so what I'd do in your case is this :
Try to get 24/88.2 running over USB. There is no reason it shouldn't work, except for the driver just not allowing it, because they forgot to make it (highly unlikely). If you have that going, and next you clearly like the Arc Upsampling, THEN go for a Fireface400 (if you think it is worth it of course).

Also keep in mind that your DAC is Oversampling, and in my theories that can't workout really (I mean, with this Arc Upsampling). That is, not until at least one person with an OS DAC tells us it still worksout for the better.

Moral : Be careful not to waste your money.
Peter
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W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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ivo
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 02:38:23 pm »

Peter,

Thanks for info.
I have tried the following:
DAC is = 24/96 and material for playback is 16/44. So, XX does not play if I use "Double" and DAC reports on unsupported frequency.
Should I set DAC is = 24/88? I doubt it.
My Vista's properties for my Dac show that supported freqs over USB are: 32, 44, 48 and 96. This may mean why it does not work probably.

Actually the dock for my particular laptop costs around 80 USD. I may try it at least to get 88 or 176 + Arc out of XX to my DAC.
About the Fireface400 - this one is too complex for just using as a playback device as well as seems pretty expensive.
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Music on internal HDD in FLAC-->LatestXX in QAP + PeakExt Mode[KS,Adaptive,2048,Q1=14,xQ1=1,Sch3,Low,Realtime,15 ms, SFS 2-400, Straight, stop all, MinOS]-->Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64bit-->Intel i5 based laptop [8 GB RAM]-->JKDAC32(HiFace based USB-I2S-DAC)-->Denon PMA-1500AE-->JBL E90 3-way speakers
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 03:21:43 pm »

Hi Ivo,

"Dac Is" set to 24/96 is good (24/88.2 indeed won't differ). Important : the fact that Vista doesn't show 24/88.2 (or any 88.2 and 176.4) doesn't say a thing, because this is for Shared Mode, and we are not using that.

It may be a bit similar to Fedelio's problem : try to look for an "Auto" setting in the DAC's driver. Or an 88.2 setting for that matter.

About the dock : I'm sorry, I misunderstood that a bit. I mean, I didn't think you meant a literal "dock". So now my question : do you think that provides SPDIF ? If that really would be the case (SPDIF) it would be a great option (for possibly more people). But I doubt it will be there (hence, where would it emerge from ?).

*If* that dock can output SPDIF (which is connected to the laptop's SPDIF), there should be an SPDIF-out on the laptop already (probably via a small jack). This would imply you can just as well try it without that dock ...

But maybe I just don't get it ?
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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ivo
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 03:59:00 pm »

Peter,

1) There is no driver for my DAC at all. When I connect it to my laptop it is automatically recognized as USB soundcard. No additional software to install.
2) Yes! For my laptop there is SPDIF out connector on the dock. So, I will connect dock to laptop, then dock to my DAC over SPDIF. Today I will take my work laptop (Dell) home with its dock (it also has SPDIF out) and will test using Foobar if 88 kHz work. There is a resampler inside Foobar which can do 88. If it works, then I will buy dock for my home laptop and use XX with 88 or 176 + Arc and drink shampaign!

That would be great to test my work laptop today using XX, but it seems then I need another license. I guess the demo mode does not allow to use upsampling + Arc?
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Music on internal HDD in FLAC-->LatestXX in QAP + PeakExt Mode[KS,Adaptive,2048,Q1=14,xQ1=1,Sch3,Low,Realtime,15 ms, SFS 2-400, Straight, stop all, MinOS]-->Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64bit-->Intel i5 based laptop [8 GB RAM]-->JKDAC32(HiFace based USB-I2S-DAC)-->Denon PMA-1500AE-->JBL E90 3-way speakers
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 04:00:35 pm »

Forgot to add:

There is no SPDIF out on my laptop. Dock is connected to laptop using HP's proprietary interface I guess. Onlu dock has SPDIF out. It has also other ports as VGA, USB, etc.
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Music on internal HDD in FLAC-->LatestXX in QAP + PeakExt Mode[KS,Adaptive,2048,Q1=14,xQ1=1,Sch3,Low,Realtime,15 ms, SFS 2-400, Straight, stop all, MinOS]-->Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64bit-->Intel i5 based laptop [8 GB RAM]-->JKDAC32(HiFace based USB-I2S-DAC)-->Denon PMA-1500AE-->JBL E90 3-way speakers
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 04:38:30 pm »

Ok, that is great ! and as said, it may be interesting for other users as well.

Quote
That would be great to test my work laptop today using XX, but it seems then I need another license. I guess the demo mode does not allow to use upsampling + Arc?

Yes it does ... Happy


And of course you are right; with USB their is no driver (settings). But since I forgot that myself, chances have only gone higher 88.2 will work under USB. You just have no means to see it, and only WASAPI Exclusive can utilize it. It will work ... yes
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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ivo
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 12:40:44 pm »

So, last night I did spend experimenting with laptops and their connections to my DAC:
Laptop1 (Dell) connected to my DAC's SPDIF in via docking station using its SPDIF out (coax).
Laptop2 (HP) connected to my DAC's USB in via laptops's USB port (regular USB cable).

So, yes! using Laptop1 I can get Double on 16/44 and my DAC accepts 88. This was not possible using USB. This proves that I can buy dock for Laptop2 and I will be able to utilize Double or even Quad with new methods of up-sampling.
The SQ:
1) Well, so far I just listened over headphones with identical XX configurations on both laptops. The SQ is almost the same via SPDIF or USB, no preference so far. This is running 16/44 with no up-sampling.
2) Then I switched XX on Laptop1 to Double+Arc and actually on my headphones I did not feel big difference if compared to regular 16/44 with no up-sampling. Maybe the sound is a bit wider, but that is all.
I also played a bit with different Q settings on both machines and here is my final verdict so far using headphones:

THE IMPACT ON SQ IS MORE PERCEIVABLE IF OPERATED WITH Q PARAMETERS RATHER THAN WITH UP-SAMPLING METHODS. MEANING HERE THAT I FEEL LARGER CHANGES IN SOUND I HEAR CHANGING Qs RATHER THAN USING UP-SAMPLING WITH ARC.

As I said this is just on headphones so far.
Just before this post I read this one: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=935.msg7518#msg7518 by Calibrator who has PCM1796. My DAC has PCM1798 which actually is the same dog and I should be feeling huge improvements in SQ. Maybe that will happen when I get my dock purchased and listened over loudspeakers. Let us see, for now this is it.
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Music on internal HDD in FLAC-->LatestXX in QAP + PeakExt Mode[KS,Adaptive,2048,Q1=14,xQ1=1,Sch3,Low,Realtime,15 ms, SFS 2-400, Straight, stop all, MinOS]-->Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64bit-->Intel i5 based laptop [8 GB RAM]-->JKDAC32(HiFace based USB-I2S-DAC)-->Denon PMA-1500AE-->JBL E90 3-way speakers
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