PC Tweak for NOS1 async USB

[manisandher]

1. Did you try a dedicated power supply feeding this USB board , either linear PSU or battery?

2. Forward, but hopefully not aggressive. Can you please elaborate a bit more of its sonic character. Any fatigue with extended listening.

Hi Prahpan. In answer to your Qs:

1. I'm using a Seasonic X460 power supply, which has a couple of IDE outputs. I'm using one of these to feed the SOtM USB board. The X460 is is a SMPS, but my understanding is that it has pretty much the lowest ripple on the market. I haven't tried a linear PS or battery, and really don't think I will.

2. No, no fatigue with prolonged listening... here at least. But I can imagine that if a system leans on the bright side anyway, this may just 'tip it over'. The more I listen to the USB board, the more I like it.

HTH.

Mani.

[manisandher]

I'm using a USB cable that has a separate power leg which I unplug from the PC anyway

It looks like you have compared with that situation. This would be "wrong".

Yes, I have to admit that when I was comparing the two, I would boot the PC up and then unplug the power leg before listening. My understanding was that the power needed to be connected in order for the NOS1 to be recognized, but that after this, the USB power was just not needed. But if you say that it's still important to have it connected (for a gnd connection, or whatever), then I'll make sure I keep it connected.

In any event, I've just had chance to compare with the power leg of my dual-wire USB cable connected, and my findings still stand. Actually, I can't really hear any difference with this power leg connected or not...

I can say though (and hopefully this is helpful), that when the sound is getting very silky - up to lifeless (and more bassy), it will be noise problems.

Yes, this is exactly how the mobo USB sounds compared to the  SOtM USB!

As I've said above, the more I listen to the SOtM USB, the more I like it.

Mani.

[Nick]

Would you mind saying what USB chipset the board is using ? IM me if you can say and would feel more comfortable.

Hi Nick. This is going to require me to take the board out of the PC to get a good look at it. I'm happy to do this an PM you when I do, but it won't be for a while I'm afraid - travelling for work a lot in the next few weeks.

Mani.

Mani hi,
Many thanks but I think it's ok, I came across an image of the card and I am reasonably sure I have understood the chipset used so please don't disturb your installation.

Thanks again,

Nick

[hubsand]

I agree exactly with both descriptions of the improvement with the SoTM card: it just sounds like better: more 'air', cleaner LF and less hash. If you need a bigger pic, by all means PM me. I also have a demonstrator available if you wanted to borrow one to play with.

[PeterSt]

Ok, so give us all the demonstrator.

Are you sure you know what you are saying ?

Your posts come across strange to me. And I am not saying this because I am the owner of this forum.

What I like in here - no, what we all like in here is serious to the point reflection of whatever it is what it's about. My point would be : you seem to just do that, but out from a black hole or something.

I am not sure what I must ask you to do (it) better;
What I feel though is that you talk from some general perspective, while there is no "general" in here. Please read how others judge and maybe also notice that this is about XXHighEnd or otherwise the NOS1 for some. On this matter I am fairly sure that everybody will agree that "judgement" goes very different than we did in Foobar times, so to speak.

If you need a bigger pic, by all means PM me.

This *is* spamming you know. Cut it out and post the picture. There is no reason not to do that, unless you want to sell something. And you do.
And you know what ? it is perfectly allowed to sell things, but go elsewhere with it please. Or do it by means of authority. Then it goes implicit. Ok ?

Thanks,
Peter

[hubsand]

Peter: I can't give you all a demonstrator . . . I can circulate it one at a time, but I think Nick was first. If it helps the cause, it's all good. I'm just a fellow traveller on the road to computer audio excellence, as anyone who knows me will testify. The only difference is that I'm sometimes in a position to resell something I believe in - wearing two hats. When that happens, and it's being discussed, I can often chip in with information or assistance - just as you, Peter, contribute usefully to the CA forum, (usually) within CC's guidelines when your products are discussed.

If you find the card promising, you'll doubtless buy one locally - so I've nothing to gain there. There are only a handful of crazies over here in the UK who would be interested in such a thing anyway: I'm not about to get rich flogging them, but I do (personally) think they're interesting.

It's not the first time I've been called strange (though the first accusation of coming from a black hole); probably not the last. But I wasn't going to shoot it unless someone was interested.

I thought it was less spammy to invite a private conversation than posting pictures publicly - sorry.

[TimDH]

I guess Peter doesn't put too much stock in USB cables improving sound, or we would have heard about it.  I have no direct experience with comparing high priced USB cables to regular ones, but I give the benefit of the doubt to experienced listeners who do claim a difference.  If the main benefit of better cables is to minimize contaminating the DAC with the PC power, then what about the Opticis fiber optic USB cable (mentioned in Computer Audiophile)? Complete galvanic isolation.  At that point, the only (??) computer influence left on the sound should be the RFI?

T

[PeterSt]

I have no direct experience with comparing high priced USB cables to regular ones, but I give the benefit of the doubt to experienced listeners who do claim a difference.

I think that would be a good approach. However ...

You/we really must wonder where this experience comes from. And then I don't mean that those handing out this experience are deaf or imagining things, but what the environment is where the difference happens.
But, if I am well informed you have an NOS1 yourself. Ah, you thought to keep that a secret eh ? haha

If the main benefit of better cables is to minimize contaminating the DAC with the PC power, then what about the Opticis fiber optic USB cable (mentioned in Computer Audiophile)? Complete galvanic isolation.  At that point, the only (??) computer influence left on the sound should be the RFI?

Correct, I think.
Or not.

Here too (is it just me being "difficult ?" ) things may not work out at all as they seem. So :
About my mentioned environment, there is no general approach to solve things here; for one it may help, for the other it may work out in a destructive fashion, and for a next problems may occur in his amplifiers;

This stuff is not all that much about contaminated power or noise or anything coming from a PC. It is about how to lead it away from where it should not be. Take out that electrical connection and then what ?
This may be the best but the reasons for it to turn out for the worse are almost more.

Generally you are right of course. But just think about what actually happens when people use another USB cable, and they perceive a difference. It is almost logic that a more noisy connection will sound better ...

[wushuliu]

The SOTM SATA is worth the price. Just installed two of them and the music is smoother and improved depth; I do not detect any top end energy or brightness. However I have a lot of power conditioning products (DIY) installed already.

I do not have a NOS1 but from my experience usb cables are not all the same. Wireworld Starlight (red) is a good price/performance option. USB cables are easy to return to a vendor so there's very little risk in trying them out.

[manisandher]

This stuff is not all that much about contaminated power or noise or anything coming from a PC. It is about how to lead it away from where it should not be.

I'm finding that if I connect the PC case to ground (using one of the ground wires in my 'star' ground arrangement, itself connected to a clean, totally isolated and ultra-low impedance earth) I get a phenomenal improvement in SQ. The sound is transformed from a muddy, slightly hazy and pretty homogeneous sound to one which is tight, sharp and much, much more dynamic. I was demonstrating this to my wife last night and she couldn't believe a single wire connected to the PC case could make such a difference.

Mani.

[BertD]

I'm finding that if I connect the PC case to ground (using one of the ground wires in my 'star' ground arrangement, itself connected to a clean, totally isolated and ultra-low impedance earth) I get a phenomenal improvement in SQ.

Interesting... wasn't your PC connected to ground/earth before?

Bert

[PeterSt]

To be ahead of this : I think Mani means the case itself, and not the mains cord.

I have similar experiences, but try to avoid these things these days, because what can happen for me, can't happen for another (at all times). So, I stopped doing this when the difference couldn't be measured anymore (regarding the development of the NOS1-USB). But this doesn't tell there *is* no difference ...

Let me add that having dedicated potentials (to me and by now) looks more dangerous than bringing solutions. The dedicated -or better, separate- potential, only creates a difference in potential, and this is very much out of control, unless you *really* know what you are doing (and let's say this is not us). Also not to forget : when we think we have all separated (like all the stereo including in that transformer), there's also the antenna working between that and your washing machine ring. Think about concrete floors with the metal support in it ... (nice antenna).

One thing is 100% sure : connecting a device to PE by means of the power cord, really does nothing much. It protects against electrical shocks, but it merely *creates* noise towards the device. The other way around : it contaminates the PE itself (from that device). With noise and offset (sine is wrinkled).

Let's take this all with some grains of salt, because it is too complicated to comprehend for me (and no Google to help really).

Peter

[manisandher]

Let's take this all with some grains of salt, because it is too complicated to comprehend for me (and no Google to help really).

Yes I agree, we should be careful with all this stuff because it's really a very complicated 'system' which will be different for everyone.

For my part, all I can say is that I prefer the sound with the PC case connected to the star ground. What exact mechanism is in play, I don't know.

Mani

[manisandher]

... I prefer the sound with the PC case connected to the star ground.

Well, as is often the case (with me at least) I think I've been lured into a false sense of improvement when doing this. Actually, what seems to be happening is that most of what I liked about going from the original to the USB NOS1 is destroyed. Especially the beautiful balance between smoothness on the one hand and detail on the other - things are veering too much towards the [false] detail now.

Oh and to make matters more confusing, I'm not sure the SOtM products are really very beneficial with the NOS1 after all. You see, when I first tried them, I was disconnecting the power leg of my two-legged USB cable when listening to music. But I understood from one of Peter's earlier posts that the NOS1 needs to have the power leg of the USB cable connected. Yes, because otherwise the NOS1 won't be recognized on boot-up... BUT also because there seem to be some pretty niffty 'USB noise-reducing' schemes going on that require the power leg to be connected.

There's obviously a lot more going on with the USB connection of the NOS1 than us mere mortals are aware of. Best advice is to just connect to the PC and leave alone, I think.

Mani.

[manisandher]

I'm finding that if I connect the PC case to ground (using one of the ground wires in my 'star' ground arrangement, itself connected to a clean, totally isolated and ultra-low impedance earth) I get a phenomenal improvement in SQ.

Well, as is often the case (with me at least) I think I've been lured into a false sense of improvement when doing this... There's obviously a lot more going on with the USB connection of the NOS1 than us mere mortals are aware of.

I really wanted to get to the bottom of this and spent a few hours over the weekend trying a few things and listening to their effects.

It seems that my monitor has a major affect on the sound. It doesn't matter if it is switched on or not... just the fact that it is physically connected to the PC changes the sound. I think that the monitor cable is creating a ground loop of some sort. Now this may not be an issue with other monitors, but mine is an older Dell monitor with an IEC socket, and I think the ground is connected internally to the cable shield.

Anyway, the upshot is that the sound is much, much 'nicer' when I disconnect the monitor cable during playback. A PITA for sure, but definitely worth it.

Try it!

Mani.