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Author Topic: PC Tweak for NOS1 async USB  (Read 49807 times)
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praphan
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« on: September 29, 2011, 04:28:29 am »

Hello everyone,

I found this card on CA forum : SOtM tX-USB Audiophile PCI to USB Audio Card. http://www.sonore.us/SOtM.html  Also this SATA filter : SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter

Does anyone try these gadgets with NOS1 USB? Appreciate your view.

Thanks and regards,
Praphan


* SOtM-SATA.jpg (13.51 KB, 355x201 - viewed 3180 times.)

* SOtM-PCI.jpg (19.25 KB, 465x294 - viewed 2867 times.)

* SOtM-SATA-Flow.jpg (19.29 KB, 397x329 - viewed 3390 times.)
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Signal chain: 24/786 NOS1 USB; 16 ms buffer on driver 1.0.2 => Valhalla XLR IC = > McIntosh 2301 tube monoblocks => Purist Dominus spk cable => B&W 802 D
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 07:39:13 am »

Mine are waiting for me at home as we speak. I'm hoping to be able to try them out this weekend.

But I have the feeling though that Peter feels they shouldn't make a difference with the NOS1...

Mani.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 08:17:54 am »

I think it may matter Mani. At least by now we know that XX settings still matter (you were the first to tell). So this should be related to this. Ok, could ...

Thank you Praphan.
Peter
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A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 08:37:32 am »

Hopefully their devices are better then their English...  Wink
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 08:57:18 am »

Quote
I think it may matter Mani.

I didn't pay all that much attention, because I know that stuff. But if the question was about the USB card ... No. I would even be careful with it. Not that I really know, but I would never use *that*. Well, not for the NOS1.

The SATA card is another subject. So, it was that I was referring to. This I sure would try, plus it is a (by now) prooven concept. Not so about the USB. There's so much noise on USB that anything could change sound (add noise and youd have more bass, to name something).


Maybe good to know :
Filtering of noise is not necessarily a good thing. If you only know that filters will shift frequencies. A. it now collects elsewhere, B. where it may even be more harmful (think amps).
Noise must be guided out. Not filtered out ...
(says me)

Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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christoffe
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 09:06:43 am »



SOtM tX-USB Audiophile PCI to USB Audio Card.

This card makes no sense in a PC because inside the NOS 1 the
"USB is powered by an internal dedicated linear power supply" . Signals (0s and 1s) are transfered between the PC and the NOS1 and vice versa (clocking) only.

Joachim
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praphan
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 02:02:47 pm »

Mine are waiting for me at home as we speak. I'm hoping to be able to try them out this weekend.

But I have the feeling though that Peter feels they shouldn't make a difference with the NOS1...

Mani.
Hi Mani,

You seem to be one of the most up to date persons in this forum.

Hope that you ordered both boards. Would appreciate if you could apply and review each board one at a time so you can evaluate its
sonic impact separately.

Thanks in advance.
Praphan
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XX 0.9z-8-3a : KS Engine 4 "Adaptive"; DB = 4096; APx16; Q1/2/3/4/5 = 14x1/0/0/0/0; No Appointment/low/real time; CR = 0.5 ms; XTweaks Ultimate; SC; SFS= 120/120 ; allow format change; unattended ; min OS and stop "all" services; normalized volume usually played at -15db ;  peak extension on ; PA off

Signal chain: 24/786 NOS1 USB; 16 ms buffer on driver 1.0.2 => Valhalla XLR IC = > McIntosh 2301 tube monoblocks => Purist Dominus spk cable => B&W 802 D
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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 02:44:26 pm »


Hope that you ordered both boards.


Hi,

This is the main content of the manuf. description for the card:

-------
The SOtM tX-USB is an audiophile PCI to USB audio card like no other. This audio card has a unique design incorporating a power line noise filter. It then has individual ultra low noise regulators to power the usb devices attached, the on board ultra low jitter clock and the on broad PCI host controller.
-------

-power line noise filter -
There is no power transmission between the PC and the NOS1 USB via the USB cable! This additional card will have a negative impact to the SQ.
Less is more, thats the philosophy.

Joachim
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manisandher
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« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 03:04:48 pm »

Hope that you ordered both boards.

Yep, both boards ordered from Jesus R at Sonore and now delivered and awaiting my attention at home.

I'll try one and then the other, and then both together and let you know what I think.

I anticipated that Peter might caution against using the USB board with the USB-NOS1, but wanted to try it myself anyway. If it indeed interfers in any way with the NOS1's already superb performance, I'll simply install the USB board into my work PC and use it with my hiFace feeding an old Musical Fidelity X24 DAC and my old low-end Stax headphones to listen to music while I work Happy.

Mani.
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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 11:53:51 pm »

I have had some experience applying similar principles to pci USB boards.

Upgrades to the usb clock.
Full isolation from the 5v and 3.3v pci bus power supply to the usb board.
Powering the boards chipset and clock with 3x quality linear shunt supplies.
Black gate decoupling caps.

With all of the above implemented on the USB board and the USB to SPDIF music interface that the board fed using it's own seperate internal 5v supply (eg not soured from the USB board, like the NOS setup), the board gave significant improments to sound.

I tried many USB chipsets, some better than others but one thing that was a problem for most pci usb boards was that they oftern share  interrupts with other devices (and we know this can be important) whereas motherboard USB tend to have dedicated interrupts to work from.

I tend to believe Peter that the NOS is relatively immune from USB interface type but past experience says there could certainly be something here.

Fingers crossed Mani for a good result  Happy
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Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 08:40:27 pm »

I had a chance to install the SOtM-SATA and SOtM-PCI-to-USB boards today. Here's what I think:

SOtM-SATA: This is difficult to evaluate really because I didn't have a chance to have a good listen before installing the board. But I think there is an improvement - things just sound a tad more 'fluid'.

SOtM-PCI-to-USB: Well, there's definitely a big difference between this and my mobo USB feeding the NOS1. The sound is more 'forward' and 'alive' - exciting I guess. It seems 'cleaner' somehow and more dynamic also. In my system, I prefer it! Switching back to the mobo USB, everything sounds really 'nice' and relaxed - the sort of sound you could sit and listen to for hours. But it doesn't sound as real or exciting to me.

I'm not sure what Peter's exact concerns about the SOtM-PCI-to-USB board might be. Of course it could be that it's actually adding some sort of 'distortion', which is compensating for an inadequacy elsewhere in my system. But overall, it definitely sounds better than the mobo USB... to my ears... in my system.

Oh, and this has nothing to do with the fact that you can switch the USB power off at the board. I'm using a USB cable that has a separate power leg which I unplug from the PC anyway. But I'm not sure the NOS1 really 'cares' whether the USB cable carries any power or not - I'm pretty certain the USB power leg is not connected.

So in all, that's $365 very well spent in my book (though I did have to pay an additional $100 in import duty & VAT).

Mani.
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2011, 10:35:11 pm »

Mani hi,

That's very interesting, sounds like a good result. I think it's time for me to get my soldering iron out agin  Happy

Would you mind saying what USB chipset the board is using ? IM me if you can say and would feel more comfortable.

Best,

Nick.
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C621 motherboard, Xeon 40 thread CPU.

 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2011, 11:32:42 am »

Hi Mani, 

Thanks for the review. Very interesting finding indeed. I have a feeling right at the beginning that the USB board might have more sonic impact than the SATA filter since it is right at the final output before feeding NOS1. Could you please clarify:

1. Did you try a dedicated power supply feeding this USB board , either linear PSU or battery?

2. Forward, but hopefully not aggressive. Can you please elaborate a bit more of its sonic character. Any fatigue with extended listening.

Thanks in advance.
Congratulation for your well spent investment anyway.
Praphan

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XX 0.9z-8-3a : KS Engine 4 "Adaptive"; DB = 4096; APx16; Q1/2/3/4/5 = 14x1/0/0/0/0; No Appointment/low/real time; CR = 0.5 ms; XTweaks Ultimate; SC; SFS= 120/120 ; allow format change; unattended ; min OS and stop "all" services; normalized volume usually played at -15db ;  peak extension on ; PA off

Signal chain: 24/786 NOS1 USB; 16 ms buffer on driver 1.0.2 => Valhalla XLR IC = > McIntosh 2301 tube monoblocks => Purist Dominus spk cable => B&W 802 D
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 03:27:57 pm »

Quote
I'm not sure what Peter's exact concerns about the SOtM-PCI-to-USB board might be.

Maybe this should not be over-emphasized. I mean, it is almost more "you" than me saying it (or starting about it).

Anyway, what would be happening is that noise, when there, (and it will be !) travels through the data itself. BUT, this is about the pure data, and not "music data". Remember the connection is asynchronous. Of course the data goes over a gnd connection as well, and *that* might neak in the noise afterall.
Now one other thing is important, and this is that you leave all the connections in-tact. This is power (+ and -), shield, and data of course. Thus :

Quote
I'm using a USB cable that has a separate power leg which I unplug from the PC anyway

It looks like you have compared with that situation. This would be "wrong".

Of course, you may still end up with a better situation than how it is meant to be (by me). But it really should be compared with (tried with) the most normal connection. This means : cut nothing.

I can say though (and hopefully this is helpful), that when the sound is getting very silky - up to lifeless (and more bassy), it will be noise problems. I'm note sure this is especially USB related, and all I can tell is that overhere this especially exchibited with USB, and nothing else (so far). But, I got that right by inherent DAC changes, and not outside ...

And I must add to *that* that when I was finished with it, I had to look at my amp section, and now that appeared to be noisy and "wrong".
In between all lines I already told it : you will go from one to the other, and in the end we need analysers to get it right. It's all really at a crazy detail level. Quite impossible to get right by means of listening. You said it :

Quote
Of course it could be that it's actually adding some sort of 'distortion'

But in the end it is all about this :

Quote
But overall, it definitely sounds better than the mobo USB... to my ears... in my system.

Peter

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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2011, 11:38:36 pm »

Would you mind saying what USB chipset the board is using ? IM me if you can say and would feel more comfortable.

Hi Nick. This is going to require me to take the board out of the PC to get a good look at it. I'm happy to do this an PM you when I do, but it won't be for a while I'm afraid - travelling for work a lot in the next few weeks.

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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