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Author Topic: Hunting for noise  (Read 115970 times)
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manisandher
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2013, 02:04:49 pm »

First finding - How to encode an audio signal in an I2S data stream.

Nick, most of your technical description is beyond my current level of understanding, but your findings seem totally 'crazy', 'amazing', 'revolutionary'... I'm not sure what the most appropriate term is!

Peter, do you think you can use these findings to further improve the NOS1 in general, even for those of us who are experiencing nothing like Nick is? (BTW, I get nothing whatsoever coming through at -144dB and the NOS1 switch #2 set to off.)

Mani.
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2013, 03:04:59 pm »

Hi,

My Adnaco system recently returned from a holiday in Holland (thanks for looking after it Peter Happy).

I intended to use it only as a diagnostic tool to use whilst understanding electrical noise within the PC DAC and AMP. This was because when I first bought the system more than a year ago to try out electrical isolation of the PC from DAC, the system showed promise but ultimatly could not exceed the sound quality of the normal USB connection.

(The findings from a year ago are posted here
http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2089.msg21556#msg21556)

So fast forwards to working with Anadco now. First thing is that in the intervening time frame the PC OS, XXHE software and my PC have all very significantly changed. On reconnecting the Anadco SB3 system the slightly darkened (though very pure sound and totally without "hash") sound was present again. However, in my current system the sound using the Adnaco is much better than I remembered and so I decided to spend a little time understanding the system to see if there were any settings or electrical changes that would make it perform. Well it turned out that this can be done and by a couple of relatively simple changes to the Anadco USB board. PC Bios, and XX Settings have been all over the last few days but its coming together now.

This will need other ears to verify what I am hearing and there are still a couple of points to sort out but I am really thinking that with the modification Anadco is making a significant positive contribution to sound quality.

Paul hi,  I think we have yet another configuration to test next time we meet !

Regards,

Nick.

PS Alan I think you may have bought an Anadco system at the same time I did, was yours an S3B (USB) system ?
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2013, 04:13:05 pm »

Hi Nick,

Yes it was the S3B, but I returned it at the time, since I was not convinced that it was improving my SQ.

But if they have done something interesting towards SQ, it is quite possible that I would order it again.

So I am following you (but with discretion of course) and am always interested in your findings Happy

Regards,

Alain
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2013, 04:21:03 pm »

Alain hi,

I also almost returned my SB3 as well  Happy

It would have been interesting if you still had the card to try the small mod on it to see if you had similar results.

The acid test for these ideas I come up with tends to be a trip to Pauls to take a listed. That soon roots out the "good" from the "wanabe" stuff. It will be interesting to see what we find with this when we get chance to get together and listen.

There are some quite exceptional qualities to the music now bit the question will be is it better "overall" as the slightly darker sound was where is fell appart last time. Now I would certainly not describe the sound as dark  Happy

Regards,

Nick.
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2013, 04:47:45 pm »

Ah... I read too fast and sometimes I don't see the end of a sentence, so my interpretation is totally wrong...

As for noise and or "ground" noise, do you feel that the Adnaco isolates something ?

For sure now that I have experienced the benefits of using a linear power supply, I would certainly not use the wall wart that comes with the S3B. But I wonder if noise that could run between the PC and the DAC could be at least reduced, if not eliminated. While I know that the data itself will be already polluted with this noise, I would expect the Adnaco to help me achieve more silence...

As for the USB board, are you talking about the 2 ports USB 3 reception box ?

Alain
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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2013, 12:18:03 am »

Alain hi,

I think there are defiantly benefits of isolating the PC ground and noise from the PC carried by the USB signal and sheild cables etc.

I am with you regards the benefits of linear supplies but I'm am sat listening to the Anadco powered by the SMPS wall wart supply and you just would not know  Happy. The key seems to be getting to the hart of the problem on the Anadco board and then the darkness disappears and the music just flows through with no noise from the PC. very very sweet.

Regards,

Nick.

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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2013, 12:49:21 am »

Hi Nick,

Wow... Happy The description that you give about the Adnaco with the modified USB board have me very interested Happy If I was to get it again, is that modification complicated for a non DIYer like me ?

 It is the S3B isn't it ?

Regards,

Alain

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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2013, 01:48:32 am »

Things are now moving on at a pace now. After having spent a fair while understanding what I think might work to deal with the noise problems, the soldering iron is well and truly out  !  Happy

After a long time working through information that Peter kindly provided I started work on the NOS USB interface this evening. I decided to make the noise tweaks in steps so that I can assess the impact and make sure that sound quality is not negatively impacted. The first set of tweaks are now applied. I have still to check for effect on  breakthrough music being played at software volume setting of -144 db but have had a listen to the results this evening (without burn in of components).

First impressions of sound quality, honestly, OMG WTF just happened ? Its just on a different plain than before.

More work to do over the weekend and then I'll post an interim view of the results both in terms of the effect on the noise problems in my system and the effects of the tweaks to the NOS1 and Anadco on sound quality.

Nick.
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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2013, 01:55:54 am »

Wow... Happy The description that you give about the Adnaco with the modified USB board have me very interested Happy If I was to get it again, is that modification complicated for a non DIYer like me ?

Alain

It's not difficult to tweak the SB3, but please let me do a little more work a/b ing with the standard usb setup and possibly get someone else to take a listen before you invest again. I would like to be absolutely sure the the effects are all good  Happy

Nick
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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2013, 02:29:19 am »

Nick,

Your advice makes plenty of sense. I will wait for the results of course.

I hope you and Paul will find the bright side of the force Happy

Regards,

Alain

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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2013, 08:50:31 am »

Hi Nick,

Sounds interesting. I look forward to taking a listen and if you need me to "drop in" let me know. In my recent attempts to minimise noise in my system I disconnected the USB plug into NOS1 to see if noise was reduced but I could not hear any difference. This isolated the NOS1/amp grounds (which are connected together) from the PE connection in the USB shield. Of course that only covers in band noise it does not cover out of band noise which I know is what you have been measuring.

Nick are you doing your tests with a short fibre connection? and have you done enough yet to determine if the length of the fibre has an effect on SQ?

Paul
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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2013, 09:15:39 am »

Nick are you doing your tests with a short fibre connection? and have you done enough yet to determine if the length of the fibre has an effect on SQ?

Paul,

Yes I have a 2m fibre cable now and it think it does help a little. The cable though is a hygene factor compared with the tweeks to the Anadco and the USB interface.

Have sent you a mail.

Regards,

 Nick.
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 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

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« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2013, 09:29:54 pm »

Hi,

I'v spent the best part of two days this weekend working on the NOS1 USB board with really super results. I am satisfied now with tweaks to this board so this afternoon was spent on the DAC pcb which gave up a really super tweak.  I just need to tune the DAC board tweak a little more and it's done. Did i just say its done  Happy yes, the sound is THAT nice. I'll post on the results when I am comfortable with it all, to be honest it could be now but I know there is a little more to come.

This is all the Anadco card needs to elevate its performance. The caps are 33uf black gate n types. They are possible a little larger than needed but they were to hand and work very well.

Nick.

UPDATE 30.10.13
I have not been able to get the Anadco to equal or exceed the performance of a direct USB connection. See update posted here

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2640.msg28771#msg28771


* image.jpg (600.36 KB, 1632x1224 - viewed 1298 times.)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 06:24:44 pm by Nick » Logged

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 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

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« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2013, 09:58:25 pm »

Hi,

I'v spent the best part of two days this weekend working on the NOS1 USB board with really super results. I am satisfied now with tweaks to this board so this afternoon was spent on the DAC pcb which gave up a really super tweak.  I just need to tune the DAC board tweak a little more and it's done. Did i just say its done  Happy yes, the sound is THAT nice. I'll post on the results when I am comfortable with it all, to be honest it could be now but I know there is a little more to come.

This is all the Anadco card needs to elevate its performance. The caps are 33uf black gate n types. They are possible a little larger than needed but they were to hand and work very well.

Nick.

Hi Nick,

You are familiar with the 300 hour burn in of Black Gates? Between start and burned-in they can make a system sound like cr*p.

Just want to warn you that the results can change over time and not for the better. It is all about patience in this case like with the NOS1, in the end you will be rewarded!

Regards, Coen
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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2013, 10:23:16 pm »

Coen hi,

Yes i'm with you,  the cap used are recovered from other old projects where they had been run in. However they have not been used for a year or three so they will need a long bun in again. The nice thing is that hopefully the sound should improve  Happy

Cheers,

Nick.
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 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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