Windows 8 Soundstage with Q-sound recording

[tillen]

Hi all!
I have lately listened to the Q-sound recording With Roger Waters - Amused to Death. Spesially "too much rope" there are some horses coming from the left to the right in the soundstage - usually - But With win8 the horses are coming in from the left, towards me, and into the middle, and turning and disapearing into the right speaker. They are not crossing from left to right.
The radiovoice to the left are in the right speaker, and everything sounds weard compared to what it was in win7.
Anyone else who have listen to this recording in win8, what are Your impressions?

Regards
Arnt

[CoenP]

It does not sound that weird here on win8. The carriage with the x-mas bells crosses the sound diagonally from "far away" left to "close by" right.

It is a highly processed soundtrack so weird stuff can happen.

Regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

[ I changed the title so it reflects Windows 8 now ]

Arnt, all,

I must say that Arnt asked me in advance whether he was crazy or whether he was right and post this. I voted for the latter. It could be (or should be ?) the first real proof that in Windows 8 something strange happens with the phase.
Disclaimer (quite a heavy one) : unless XXHighEnd makes a mess of something, but that is not so obvious to me ...

I don't play Amused to Death that much anymore, but played it sufficiently enough in the past to know all the tracks by heart. And well, this Too much Rope sure sounds strange noa to say the least. It's actually hard for me now to recognize horse feet passing by (it's merely strange mesh sound). But this is another matter (not, but it doesn't proove Arnt's case much);

After Arnt gave me his description, I gave it a listen and this is my result :
Sleigh bells appear clearly in the middle at first. Then they move to the left (sort of slowly) as the horse feet start to get noticeable. Next the lot (bells and feet) moves to the middle and seems to travel to the right. But it does not quite because the lot seems to move back to the middle and disappears there.

Arnt, allow me to quote this from your PM :

the soundstage is kind of inside out.

Though vague within itself and without listening not much clear perhaps, I say this is crucial. It is exactly my perception too, and not much a placebo because you said to; I was focused on the horses only, but next came to the inside out idea myself. Literally.

Ever back I used Vogue from Madonna's Immaculate Collection (also Q sound) as a test track. Must have played it 500 times. So I gave that one a go too yesterday.
Wow.

Nothing works anymore. And by my personal guarantee : all is inside out. It is hard to describe, but without comparing to W7 I'd say that things which should move from outside to inside now move the other way around. Two dubbed voices which are following eachother a few ms and from my memory play along in the middle with a hall effect, now play completely separate in both speakers. The Vogue-Vogue-Vogue repeat should flow from outside to inside and close in to you, ending in the back of the room. Now they start inside in front of you and end up outside far away.
The whole track has lost its body.

I really should check my phase.

QSound is all about phase manipulation. Smart stuff.
Windows 8 problems are ALL about phase problems; we tend to have forgotten them (I do), but it is still the most noticeable how sounds appear so much left/right or separated while we recall the track concerned as homogenious. I *still* keep on saying that W8 needs more volume to let things come together in the room.
I am not saying per se anymore that things in W8 are wrong ...

But I think QSound proves it is.

Anyone else ?

[tillen]

The radiovoice to the left are in the right speaker,

it should of course be in the left speaker.

[CoenP]

Hi,

I didn't play Q sound recordings since my xp days so I got myself a new reference for win7 tonight. Next to the infamous RW and Madonna I have an album from Julian Lennon with some spectacular Q sounds.

For one thing the sensation of space is different between win8 and win7. This morning I had the feeling with win8 that echos were moving towards me, but tonight I cannot reproduce that. The sound is definitively closer to to the speakers but not strange in the way that it confuses my mind. I am playing much louder now by the way (-22dB) and I tend to prefer to play with PeakExtension on (in win8).

So laserbeam focus stuff: yes, strange phase: no, not observable here.

The lack of wholeness has been one of my complaints about the win8 sound in my room since the beginning. Now my new grounding scheme seems to bear some fruit and I can begin to appreciate the virtues of win8 better.

For another matter, I see some volume related things passing by regularly. Like the WIN8 stops, playing loud for better sound and the effects of PE. Is this software running as it is intended?

Regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

After listening once again to Too much Rope under W8, I now also tried W7. Ehm, no difference for the staging ?

But right away it was clear that W7 shows a realistic view of it all, with the first to notice "better sleigh bells".

Sitting back somewhat I now think that it always has been the same, but that W8 puts the emphasis on the highs (which just is so !) and the first noticable are the over tones of the bells. This by itself is NOT correct of course (all should be even). But what happens next (I think - and which is why I'm sure AB(X) comparing can't work) : because I heard the bells in the middle through W8 I can't avoid hearing them so in W7.
I need to add though that I had trouble in W7 with identifying where they start to be audible. In there it is not the higher pitched more profound over tones thrown at you at first. It's just bells at the virtual lower frequency.

What was also clear right away is that W7 shows more fundament to all. Not more bass per se, but more deepness under everything, especially making voices more realistic.

Sadly, what was also clear right away is the more grey sound. And now I think I can solve that, although it will be for myself only (speaker related) ...
The nature of this seems totally the same to me as how I solved grey (better : rough) sound earlier. With the "reference" of W8 this just needs more now. Nothing changed of course, but my reference for highly accurate high frequency sounds did.

There's another thing which could be more interesting :
I am sure that when you search this forum for QSound and posts from me, you'll run into my remark that QSound doesn't seem to work anymore. This is already so for at least two years; Since QSound is about phase manipulation it can well be so that this "manipulation" can't be done "all the way" thinking about frequencies and their accuracy. So what changed the past years ? well, everything got way better for sure. And now the failures (or issues) of QSound become profound ?

If it were for me, this topic can be closed; too difficult and not enough bandwidth (too few QSound albums around). IOW, not all that much important. However, the W7/W8 debate may receive some oil on the fire because of it.

I'd like even to stirr the pot like this :
When I was going to try W7 through the same XXHighEnd PC with the W8 boot on it, I found that my W7 boot was not ready for the (here) latest XXHighEnd version and I couldn't reach the music which is on another PC. So, grabbed a USB pen and played it from there. Well, I KNOW that for W7 this just doesn't matter, and if it does I can't perceive it;

I can promise - no even guarantee you such a better life when you do not need to be bothered about all the stupid stuff needing to be taken care of for W8. Actually all this W8 sh*t is for nobody. We should hate it.

Done.
Peter

[pedal]

(too few QSound albums around).

Here is a list of the few Q-sound albums there is: http://www.qsound.com/spotlight/users/recording-artists.htm

[PeterSt]

I never knew there were so many !
But odd, I own most of those and never noticed a thing.