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Author Topic: RAMDisk  (Read 130418 times)
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manisandher
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« on: October 06, 2010, 12:26:51 pm »

Without meaning to steal anyone's thunder (I hope you don't mind Marcin), I thought this topic was worthy of its own thread.

So, how exactly can running XX from a RAM partition improve its sound? I have a hypothesis which is related to this thread over at CA: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Monster-raises-its-headagain.

Could it be that its all down to the SATA cable? Presumably, running XX from RAM would eliminate any ill effects that the SATA cable and HDD/SDD might be introducing.

It's a hypothesis (a far-fetched one, I know), that's all.

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
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Raj.V
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 01:17:53 pm »

Mani,

regarding your point on the SFS & Ramdisk, here is my system observation. (Note: my system may not be the most revealing.)

Yes, it still does make a difference with the SFS settings even with my Vista OS. For optimal SQ, I have to keep mine at 120-150 (I have always upsampled 4x).

But, interestingly I hear no difference in core-appointment settings, which I used to hear when playing with XXHE on harddisk.

Raj
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XXHE/Ramdisk 1G, Q(-1,0,0,0,0), Special (256), 4xArcP, Non-Invert, Peak Extend, Unattended-Services Off, Core Appointment - 1, Player priority - Lowl, Thread priority - Realtime, Split File size - 75MB, Vista 32Bit Home Premium Laptop (C2D) -> HiFace
boleary
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 01:48:52 pm »

So, in the Ramdisk Configuratio utility, what disk size should be selected; I have 4 gigs of ram on the computer? Also, should one select Fat 16 or 32? n the "Load and Save" tab, which checkboxes should be checked, I presume one would want disc image saved but.....Lastly, do I reinstall xx directly on the Ramdisc drive? Thanks in advance for your help!
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
Raj.V
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 02:04:46 pm »

I just used FAT16 and used the size which was already displayed (you should increase it) if you want to play flac or "copy to XXHE HD".
Click run. That's it.

Unzip XXHE in the newly created ramdisk. Create XXData folder. Basically the usual steps...

Run XXHE from the new Ramdisk and start also the original one from your HD - then you can A-B the XXHE/HD and XXHE/Ramdisk.

Raj
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XXHE/Ramdisk 1G, Q(-1,0,0,0,0), Special (256), 4xArcP, Non-Invert, Peak Extend, Unattended-Services Off, Core Appointment - 1, Player priority - Lowl, Thread priority - Realtime, Split File size - 75MB, Vista 32Bit Home Premium Laptop (C2D) -> HiFace
PeterSt
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2010, 02:07:00 pm »

Select FAT32

I used 1GB for it, and can normally play an album.

Copy your current XX folder onto it, but use the complete structure. Thus, supposed you now have XX in

c:\Player\XX-0.9z-2\

make that folder on the RAMDisk and copy the complete contents, including the subfolders. Better leave out the TemporaryData (log data) to save some space.

Sadly you will have to set all your settings again.

When after a reboot the driver letter is the same for the RAMDisk, you can again copy the XX files, but now the settings will have been preserved.

About saving the "image", so all goes automatically after a reboot ... I must test this, and therefore now reboot this PC. Happy

Peter


PS: Raj was ahead of me. FAT16 should work too -> it only allows less files (but think in millions).
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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PeterSt
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2010, 02:20:50 pm »

The Save Image thing works by itself, but it seems that as soon as you use this (see 2nd tab), the RAMDrive isn't created automatically after a reboot. However, starting it up again, will now recreate the contents automatically. So, very much workable.
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Gerard
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2010, 02:34:49 pm »

The Save Image thing works by itself, but it seems that as soon as you use this (see 2nd tab), the RAMDrive isn't created automatically after a reboot. However, starting it up again, will now recreate the contents automatically. So, very much workable.

Peter,

Can you make this in XX? Use a button to do this automatically??

 Happy
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Januari 2017 XX 2.05
OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
manisandher
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2010, 02:47:01 pm »

No, once you select 'load disk image at startup' and also 'save disk image on shutdown' then everything becomes automatic. You will notice that your PC takes longer to shutdown, as RAMDisk saves the RAM disk image. On startup, the RAM disk is created automatically with XX and all the previous settings totally intact.

That's how it works on the 3 machines I've tried it on here.

Mani.

EDIT

I forgot to mention, once you've pressed 'start RAMDisk' and everything looks OK, then just close the window - DO NOT press 'stop RAMDisk', unless you actually want to delete the RAM disk and XX (if you've installed it there).
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
boleary
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2010, 02:54:17 pm »

Thanks to all.  Happy
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 06:44:51 pm »

My thoughts on why RAM disk work for music go back to the basic architecture of a PC. Music is generally improved by PC responsiveness (speed) in the right parts of the hardware, OS and HighEnd processes. Micro or even pico seconds must surely count in some areas. The responsiveness of the PC to the few software processes actually involved in playing music is what all our OS tweaks are about in the end.

This is NOT all fully worked through as a theory but...

For XXHighend to read from a Sata HDD, the CPU’s read request has to be transmitted from OS > SATA drivers > North Bridge > South Bridge > SATA implentation of the south bridge > the HDD itself. The HDD heads then find and read the data and load into the HDD cache if it’s not already there. To return the data from the HDD to XXHighEnd the data follows the reverse route; HDD Drive > Cache > SATA > southbridge > northbridge > CPU.

Disk sub subsystems are very well optimised for speed but not to the same level as CPU to RAM by DDR data transfer. If you assume that a the SATA HDD and RAMDisk software drivers are equally efficient in terms of  code and use of interrupts (big assumtion), you can seen from the diagram in this link http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-p45-chipset,1961-3.html that the access of the CPU to RAM is both shorter and conducted over the higher bandwidth parallel channels of  DDR.  Much faster than CPU to a HDD access.

My guess is that the extra speed of access and data transfer, translates to MUCH more timely delivery of the data to XXHighEnd processes. RF and cables may also play a part but I’m guessing timing is the main influence.
Just a theory  grazy  any thoughts ?
Nick.
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Audio PC

C621 motherboard, Xeon 40 thread CPU.

 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
Marcin_gps
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 07:20:56 pm »

Nick, I'm sure you're right about it. I'll just add that from my experience lowest latency works/sounds best.
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Raj.V
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 07:26:09 pm »

Nick,
your theory definitely holds water.

If the idea is to keep the transfer rates high and the paths short... perhaps it will help to have XXHE on Ramdisk and the music on a SSD connected through PCI slot. Then South bridge is out of the picture.

Is that possible???

Raj
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XXHE/Ramdisk 1G, Q(-1,0,0,0,0), Special (256), 4xArcP, Non-Invert, Peak Extend, Unattended-Services Off, Core Appointment - 1, Player priority - Lowl, Thread priority - Realtime, Split File size - 75MB, Vista 32Bit Home Premium Laptop (C2D) -> HiFace
Nick
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 08:34:16 pm »

Raj,

When I chose my mobo I didn't know what chipset to go for and what would work best for PCI based interfaces so I did a bit of reading on chipsets. Nothing too technical but I recon RAMDISK takes the southbridge out of the equation (and a lot else as well).

Nick.
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Audio PC

C621 motherboard, Xeon 40 thread CPU.

 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
Josef
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2010, 09:23:34 pm »

I'm not sure I buy Nick's theory when it comes to XX:
For simplicity, let's say there is only 1 track in playlist - As I understand, before playing XX will first perform conversion to WAV (if needed) and then load resulting file into a pre-locked RAM - Only then, it starts playing i.e. reading music bits from there.
So the path bits have to travel to get to XX engine is identical to one used with RAM disk: no SATA cables magic etc...bits come directly from RAM in both cases.

If, however, RAM is not locked but merely 'allocated' and memory-mapped files API is used instead then it's a different story.... 

Peter, can you comment if this is not too much proprietary info you'd rather not disclose?
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 09:37:32 pm »

Josef,

Now I think about it, I think you are right. Both HDD play and RAMDisk play are playing from RAM already !!

I think I remember reading that preconverted files are loaded to memory before play (except WAVs that are not processed which need Copy to OS setting). This means as you say both HDD and RAMDISK are playing from RAM.

What is making the difference ?? dntknw

Nick.

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Audio PC

C621 motherboard, Xeon 40 thread CPU.

 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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