Ripping CD's

[SeVeReD]

Two bit-identical files should sound identical when played back through XX. If they don't, then the only thing I can think of is that their location on the hard-drive matters.
Mani.

This is a conclusion I came up with awhile ago also.  I'm glad that I have xxhe rip the files again to the main drive... somewhat consistent? but who knows... I've stopped listening too closely now that I've reached the ripe ol age of 52.  I never compared ripping programs, but I'm glad I ripped the majority of my music using a plextor drive and their software.  Now I use EAC with what I hope are good settings... also.... and I always felt it mattered... I rip the whole album to a single wav/cue file... ya, I still think it matters... even though peter splits em hehe as he rerips em to the C: drive.  who knows... someones a little crazy




cookoo

[PeterSt]

I rip the whole album to a single wav/cue file... ya, I still think it matters... even though peter splits em hehe as he rerips em to the C: drive.

At least *this* is something I agree with. Well, you knew that ...


PS: This "to the C: drive" does not happen when it's WAVs, unless you tell XXHE to do so ("copy to XX Drive").

[PeterSt]

Lowering SFS to 50 has cured problem. Should I gradually increase SFS until this problem occurs then back of?

I find this hard to believe, although *something* will be happening at your side ...

So, what you say is : "when I start at e.g. track #3, with the higher SFS I will hear a few seconds from track #2", right ?

No, I won't believe that. Your story must be different somehow.

Btw, to exclude all which can be involved, please take care that no .cue files are involved with your albums concerned.

Peter


PS: Maybe you should focus on something like "played track #2, then stopped; then started again at track #3 and in that situation I heard a few seconds from track #2". Now, *that* I would believe. But now investigate your DAC ... (not emptying the last buffer). Also try Engine#3 (WASAPI) vs Engine#4 (Kernel Streaming); there could be a difference.
Lastly, play around with Q1 a little; that too may change things.
And let me know of course.

[PeterSt]

Anyone ever done an analysis of dbpoweramp v EAC? Is one supposed to be better than the other?

Please see attached.

That's from TAS, right ?
The first day that they write something with sense has yet to come (ok, my personal view, but look at that particular pressing; you will agree instantly )

[PeterSt]

Two identical files should not bring any difference that I can think of.

The processing coming along with it (like rip - play after 5 minutes or so), does.

The location where it is played from ? does.

There's some more.

[manisandher]

... what Plextor model would you recommend and where do I have to activate the "forced unit access"?

Hi Juan, I mention 'FUA' in my first post in this thread: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1821.0

My Plextor is the original external 'Premium' model. The PX-'230A'  is supposed to be the best internal model. But both of these are going to be hard to find nowadays.

'FUA' may well work with other much cheaper non-Plextor drives though. The way to find out is to get a slightly scratched CD that is definitely in the Accuraterip database. Set FUA on (as I describe in the thread mentioned above) and then try to rip the CD. If the CD ripping slows down and the end result matches the Accuraterip database results, then FUA looks like it's working correctly. However, the creator of dBPoweramp (Spoon) still strongly recommends not using FUA unless you have a 'real' Plextor drive.

FWIW, I rip CDs at maximum speed using FUA and my 'real' Plextor drive - a new CD normally takes around 2 minutes to rip, with the results matching the Accuraterip database perfectly.

Mani.

[Flecko]

The first day that they write something with sense has yet to come

Haha! You just cheerd me up. I like that expression.

[juanpmar]

... what Plextor model would you recommend and where do I have to activate the "forced unit access"?

Hi Juan, I mention 'FUA' in my first post in this thread: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1821.0

My Plextor is the original external 'Premium' model. The PX-'230A'  is supposed to be the best internal model. But both of these are going to be hard to find nowadays.

'FUA' may well work with other much cheaper non-Plextor drives though. The way to find out is to get a slightly scratched CD that is definitely in the Accuraterip database. Set FUA on (as I describe in the thread mentioned above) and then try to rip the CD. If the CD ripping slows down and the end result matches the Accuraterip database results, then FUA looks like it's working correctly. However, the creator of dBPoweramp (Spoon) still strongly recommends not using FUA unless you have a 'real' Plextor drive.

FWIW, I rip CDs at maximum speed using FUA and my 'real' Plextor drive - a new CD normally takes around 2 minutes to rip, with the results matching the Accuraterip database perfectly.

Mani.

Thanks Mani, I googled Plextor and yes it´s hard to find the authentic one.
Sorry but I don´t understand well how to activate FUA, what does it mean?: by adding '-usefua' in the command line. Or in other words, how can I do it in EAC?.

Juan

[manisandher]

OK, to use the 'force unit access' command in EAC, this is what you need to do:

EAC shortcut
1. set up a shortcut for EAC (on your desktop, or wherever)
2. go into shortcut properties
3. add '-usefua' to target command line (see jpeg below)
4. go into Advanced, and select run as administrator (just to be on safe side)

EAC Drive Options
1. go into EAC drive options
2. Under 'Extraction Method', untick 'Drive caches audio data' (see jpeg below)

WARNING This method is only guaranteed to work with 'real' Plextor drives. Ordinarily, you should never deactivate the cache in EAC because 99.9% of drives have a cache that cannot be deactivated. In which case, your rip will go ultra fast, but you will be ripping in the equivalent of 'burst mode'... NOT GOOD!

Mani.

[PeterSt]

WARNING This method is only guaranteed to work with 'real' Plextor drives. Ordinarily, you should never deactivate the cache in EAC because 99.9% of drives have a cache that cannot be deactivated. In which case, your rip will go ultra fast, but you will be ripping in the equivalent of 'burst mode'... NOT GOOD!

I just wondered ... is this not clear to only me ?

So, 99% of drives have a cache which can not be deactivated ?? Supposed this is true, than those drives are 100% useless.
I don't know whether it is true though, but it very well can be.

Never deactivate the cache in EAC ? Hmm ... I would say that you meant to say never *activate* it.

All summed up, no cache should be active anywhere.

Peter

[manisandher]

Ah but that's exactly why it's important to get a 'real' Plextor drive and deactivate its cache using 'force unit access'.

If you untick 'Drive caches audio data', but don't actually deactivate the cache, you're in trouble...

The best thing to do is to use the 'Detect drive features' button. With 99.9% of drives, it will tick the 'Drive caches audio data' box automatically. However, with a 'real' Plextor drive, if you use FUA, it will automatically untick the 'Drive caches audio data'.

Anyway, as I said, there is an easy test. Get a badly scratched CD. If the drive does not slow down (almost to a stop) on ripping, then you're in the equivalent of burst mode.

EDIT: And there's always Accuraterip. If Accuaterip is verifying all your rips as accurate, then they are! In which case, totally ignore everything I'm saying...

Mani.

[PeterSt]

I can't say that you cleared up much from your previous post. Maybe read again both my post and yours I responded to. They look opposite to me.

[manisandher]

Peter, I understood your post perfectly.

We both agree that we really do not want to use the cache during ripping.

However, you believe that all that is required is to deactivate the 'Drive caches audio data' box in EAC. I believe that this will give you 'disastrous' results... unless you really bypass the physical cache in the actual drive also.

And there's only one way I know of to really bypass the physical cache in the drive - get a 'real' Plextor drive and use FUA.

But look, I researched all this almost 10 years ago now, and maybe a lot has changed since then?

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Haha, how do we have this misunderstanding ... could be my unknowledge (btw, I have had a Plextor (something like 600 GPB) right from when it existed - until it died (producing read errors (and thus write) which were NOT detected by EAC ... just saying)).

Ordinarily, you should never deactivate the cache in EAC because 99.9% of drives have a cache that cannot be deactivated.

What I don't see is how the cache in EAC will *ever* improve on anything, except for read speed.
So, cache in EAC should be deactivated always.
And next, any drive with cache is unsuitable in the first place.

So ?
(I don't want to be your pain, and let's agree this is about the good advice for others)

[manisandher]

Here's what the developer of dBPoweramp has to say about the cache:

"Caching is employed by the majority of drives to improve performance, but caching stops secure extraction: when a secure ripper tries to re-rip the same section a 2nd time, instead of getting audio from the disc, audio comes from the cache (which is the same as the first rip). A secure ripper must be able to detect and invalidate the cache (by reading more than the cache value before the section of audio desired)."

Read that last sentence very carefully (the emphasis is mine)!

If you deactivate the 'Drive caches audio data', then the ripper will NOT try to read more than the cache value. This is perfect... only if the drive has no cache (99.9% do have a cache!) OR if you've bypassed the drive's cache using something like FUA.

Now look, I don't want anyone to get paranoid about the 1000s of rips they've made. If you're worried, check a rip with Accuraterip - it's as simple as that!

Mani.