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Author Topic: Phasure to X-fi 2013  (Read 37841 times)
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Scroobius
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2013, 02:12:22 pm »

Peter - thanks all is now clear you had actually mentioned the active bass in your first post but I missed it.


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621 Xeon 6120 LPS PC  -> Xeon Scalable 16/32 core with Hyperthreading On (all cores active) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.69  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Off / WallPaper Off/ OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelino Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 02:19:27 pm »

Quote
Also see my next post.

Forget this (for now). I had prepared a fairly long post (as usual swoon) of which I managed to close the browser instance before posting it.

Grrrrrr
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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PeterSt
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2013, 02:30:46 pm »

Sh*t I hate this. My previous posts all anticipated on what would come up in this next post (I had already written). Of course by now I don't know anymore what I wrote, so consistency will be gone for sure.
Sorry guys.

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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CoenP
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2013, 04:18:17 pm »

Hi Peter,

I think I mixed up Oris with the Orphean, nevertheless I got my answers in your reply to Paul!


Regards, Coen

P.s. Never mind the Cat, I am old enough to make up my own mind!
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Settings: Qn: , SFS: , timeres: XT tweaks: , buf: 4096, driver: 8 ms,

Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
Mamba315
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2013, 08:37:19 pm »

Forget this (for now).

This is always a bummer. I've had this happen with emails (some of which took hours to write and perfect).  The only good thing is that, sometimes, version 2 turns out even better.  Takes a few beers to ease the frustration though!

Matt
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PeterSt
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2013, 11:23:11 am »


Here's an update on what was achieved this week so far;
(I will never be able to inject the enthusiasm I had in my lost post because then right after the fact)

Monday I started thinking more towards the ringing of filters, knowing that passive loudspeaker filters/XOvers ring just the same (post, IIR). So, went back to the DSP module.
But actual reason for that was to easily apply a needed notch because a self resonance frequency of the baffle. And notice : in this version of the Orelino the drivers are mounted in the baffle, which is NOT the idea for the final version (drivers will shine-through only, like the Big Orelo).

Again the bass and mid-high where aligned by means of phase (and not impulse), but, with my now "known" technique how to do that, I also applied the time alignment (since I was in DSP mode anyway);
I had slept a night on how to improve the alignment technique as a whole, and thought that very precise alignment would be possible now.
But my few cm of headroom on shifting the horn was sufficient ?

Haha, yes. With normal alignment maybe. But not with what I had dreamt about.
Of course I'll keep the means to myself, but I am now capable of creating a 100% XOver. Thus, prove that it's correct. I don't think anyone can do that.

Example from yesterday (and now in reverse mode making this consistent with my earlier posts about "this" subject) :
I wanted to lower the low end of the mid-high horn by 1dB (remember, that's passively filtered anyway), and as I told in that earlier post, this is not allowed without changing the XOver. My special means shows that in less than half of a second, and getting it right again takes maybe 10 minutes. This is about the slopes on both sides (24dB/Octave in this case), also knowing that when only one side is lowered in output (like my 1dB) the slopes won't match (for the alignment) anymore either. This too can just be checked in a second as well. So, change that when needed and together with the phase alignment with as means the time alignment and all is OK again.

Remember, the big change compared to the first post in this topic is about the now precise alignment. This is the most different from running a sweep or all-frequency noise normally used. You see nothing. Well, relatively. So actually we hope to get close, no, think we do, because the severe wobbling plot "now" looks the best (through the software used). But of course there is a reason to use wideband drivers because they don't need a devistating XOver ...
Haha, listen to this ...

In that first post I talked about the "free sound of open baffle". Oh, is that so ? Well, apparently I didn't know sh*t, but I'm pretty sure I am no different than anyone elsewhere. And no, those with a single (wideband) driver also don't know, because it's all about the bass.

Oh, didn't I tell you ? The Orelino now goes straight to 18Hz. (+/- 1dB in the region up to 100Hz).
17Hz is feasable too, but I just stopped (hey, the illegal boosting scratching)
100dBSPL continuous is still a piece of cake (3-4mm of excursion).

The sound

First of all : No standing waves anywhere no matter how low it goes (there's my hobby horse again). Orelino's are 65cm (2ft) from the back wall.

Next, no coloration anywhere. And on this subject, heck, what difficult that is. So, this is how I had to go back to the DSP, because any slidest resonance in something and you're gone. Also notice that this can't be checked with normal loudspaker measurement means because they measure the frequency involved (like e.g. 120Hz at some stage) and not the resonating frequencies which can spring from it, like 60Hz. So, play 120Hz and perceive 60Hz ? haha, may sound as a gag, but that really colors. So what I did was hooking up an FFT analyser and watched all music playing for hours and hours (and more). Only then you learn where issues are and that what you hear must be fake (because too often occurring as seen through the analyser = ... not neutral.

When this "100% filter" was first done on Monday, I could not believe what I heard. So, listened to the speaker for more than a week already, was the most enthusiast already, but THIS ? How to explain it to you. I think I can do that in a kind of technical way :

Envision this slow blues electric bass. The guy (with hat or not) plays his "chords". Well, not real chords, but the melody. This goes from the one hey to the other, right ?
WRONG. Not anymore !
It now seems that no bass player plays like that. And maybe I also found the reason why the bass player at that concert always sounds better at that concert than at home through the "stereo". And I hinted to this long ago : we should have a separate speaker for that bass player in our set. The why was beyond me, but it felt like that.
Not so anymore;

What happens is that any XOver normally "jumps" from the one key (frequency) to the other. Now think of the player moving the string between the frets (also without frets being there of course). So, the string is stretched and the frequency goes up somewhat. Also, such a string sound is always more squary (at least far from a sine) which means that higher frequencies are involved as well (harmonics). This by itself implies that wherever the XOver is (285Hz in our case) you will be playing right *through* that. Mind the through ...

When the frequency graduately changes, they will cancel out "step by step" and the net effect is that you don't perceive the graduate change at all. Well, that is my not-so-scientific reasoning for it. And, instead you just hear the note played die out until the next note is hit (on the string). Not bad when you don't know about the difference (or "reality").

Next thing to tell is that now all basses snorr (my Dutch expression about snorring cats). "Yea, but my basses snorr too" I hear you say, and well, mine did too. But only the lower key ones. And again long ago I told about my waiting (for SQ improvement) until cello's doing that, which in my vision was possible. Ha !
I can now hear that the "snorring" is actually implied by higher frequencies (think about the squares again) and not by low frequency sines at all. So, when low enough (think 30Hz) a pure sine will exhibit similar, but hardly any bass plays that low, so it is not about that in the first place. It again is about how the Xover destroys, and actually makes anything of it, which is vaguening. Also, even a 24dB XOver is rather wide (spreads something like 260Hz around my 285Hz mid point) and a lot can get lost there. Think about a 80Hz more square sound, which has it's third (needed for "square") harmonic at 320Hz. All right in the XOver area ... (and 80Hz plays easily through a bass instrument).

Next thing which clearly occurs - and what I also never perceived before - is how the bass player slowly releases his (chord playing) finger from the string. So, while I talked about dying out of the sound because of the XOver while graduately changing frequency, the other way around happens the same : there is mucho variation in how the player releases the string. This by itself is "enabled" by again those harmonics (higher frequencies) now playing (the snorring actually) which are so easy to hear dying out when they do. I mean, when not there, how to hear them die out, right ?

So there's a whole freaking new dimension added.
And it is seriously freaking, because you won't recognize your favorites anymore.

Sub low

Talking about freaking ... what about frightening;
So, I use(d !) two subwoofers. Can do 12Hz blabla.
Oh, is that so.
Well, no, that is not so. They create low sound. They can indeed create that blush of air if you want. Can shake the room or even your trousers. But they do not play music.

I've had similar stories about my ambient favorites and how they are hard to recognize after a SQ change. But this ?
My "Demo Gallery" is full with that stuff. NOTHING can be recognized anymore. I now see that all this sh*t is full of sub-low I did not know about. I now see that all that stuff seemed to have its "melody" in the higher regions, while it's actually the roar. It is totally unbelievable.
Been to a good movie with great surrounding sound lately ? this does just that;

It is not about adding a blush of air anymore. It is about sheer 3D (??) left/right pressuring the room with all kind of events which makes you think you are in the middle of a nasty thing happening soon. Can I call it orgasmic ?

And still this is open baffle (based). Our Bert applied some nice efficiency principles (meant to supercede the Big Orelo), and they work better than the man expected (and heard) himself. See you tonight Bert ! Happy

Oh, finally finished with undoubtedly again too long post, I suddenly recall how I started out the accidentally deleted one :
My (woman) partner in crime's first remark was that the electric guitars sounds so beautiful. An electric guitar sounding beautiful eh ? Women ...
Yesterday she repeated that and added to it that all woman voices now can go easily. Hmm ...
But it is true, there is a purity unheard in it all.
And on the woman voice ... Take Emma Shaplin. Ever back I used a specific track of her for testing. Played it often. And yesterday there was a completely profound synthesizer playing along ? Never heard that. But this is how albums completely change ...

Ok, done. Best speaker ever I dare say, although it is still a proto. Right after the X-fi show it will reach its final stage (within a week) and it will only get better of that.
What you didn't know is that I have been doing this for myself, being the first on the order list (well, for a different but similar version which is a secret). I guess we'll reveal that at the Show. Ah, right. Ok, I did it for the Show.
No ... it was for Bert.
For both of us ?
For you ?
heat
Peter


PS: If you see how a speaker like this can be changed from one day to the other and from "best" to "outragious", you should also be able to see how we (or customers) can tweak for the better in the DSP department to next share the configuration files amongst all. This is also how it's crucial to NOT apply notches (or boosts) for room correction, which I did not apply anywhere (and which I claim not to be needed). So, applying a new "filter" is a matter of 5 seconds (plugging in the USB cable for it takes the most of that time).
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Leo
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 11:48:02 am »

Wow Peter, cannot wait for x fi! Do I understand correctly that your filter is in rhe digital domain? If most time is needed for switching the usbcable... But I have been reading at racespeed so may have mist some points here
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Dedicated silent audio pc HFX classic, Windows 8 pro 64bit  / Intel 3930 CPU 6 cores 12 threads,  ASRock x79 Extreme4-M/ SeaSonic Platinum 400w ATX PSU / 16Gb RAM , music on (SATAIII), MinOS/ Engine#4 Special Mode / Q1/2/3/4/5 = *6*/0/1/1/1 Qf=1 (Dev.Buffer = 4096) / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / *Scheme = 1-2* @ UnAttended  /Services Off + No Running Time / Octo Arc Prediction Upsampling / *SFS=0,4 max= 120*  XT Tweaks balanced load 43, nervous=100, cool when idle 1, Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Double Octo Arc Prediction Upsampling / -> USB with Dexa clock -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1 async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.3 (2ms) ->  direct to AMP: Gainclone mid high, Hypex DPS400 low, horn system (tractrix for mid/high, BD for bass with Oris200)
PeterSt
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2013, 12:46:39 pm »

Leo, yes, the bass side is in the digital domain as you describe it (DSP).
So, each speaker contains a DSP module, and its working is uploaded through "configuration files".

Nothing special these days (and I myself used such an application aleady 10 years ago, through MIDI (yep)), but integrated in a high-end speaker - I wonder.
And oh, in a not-so-high-end (active) speaker this happens just the same, but there you won't need a DAC either. So this is exactly what the problem is about : once you use DSP means, the output of that can be regarded a sheer DAC (because a real D/A converter is used in there in the last stage), and so for the 300, 400 or 500 euros such a module costs it should contain a good D/A converter as well ?

So for the lowest frequencies I (on and off Happy) think this is allowed. Problem though is that the other side of the cross over now is passive, and that you need to know a hell of a lot how that exactly works out, because you now can not sort of "mirror" the both sides. Thus, one is a pile of coils and caps and resistors and it should do what you want, while the other is graphical software and there is nothing to mirror.
Do both sides in playback software and all is digital to begin with, and will output through your fine D/A converters. But for a general speaker this can't work because it would always need that playback software.

Regards,
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2013, 02:19:02 pm »

Nice Peter. Thanks.

A few questions:

1)

Do both sides in playback software and all is digital to begin with, and will output through your fine D/A converters.

So, when will this become a reality in XX/multi-channel-NOS1?

2) For now, would it be possible for me to apply similar LF DSP with my Swing MkIIs, do you think? Maybe too much work and not possible without your 'secret alignment tricks'?

3) Where do headphones fit into all this? My golden reference are still my AKG K-1000 headphones. I can substitute the speakers directly with these, i.e. they can (need to) be driven by the power amp. I've found them invaluable in giving me an idea of how the music should really sound. Single FR driver, no x-overs, no DSP, no standing waves, nada. And still easily the best sound I've ever heard.

Mani.

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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2013, 02:27:26 pm »

'a general loudspeaker'...... Are you joking Peter?
we want loudspeakers (and loudspeaker solutions) dedicated to the player software+ dac very happy
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Dedicated silent audio pc HFX classic, Windows 8 pro 64bit  / Intel 3930 CPU 6 cores 12 threads,  ASRock x79 Extreme4-M/ SeaSonic Platinum 400w ATX PSU / 16Gb RAM , music on (SATAIII), MinOS/ Engine#4 Special Mode / Q1/2/3/4/5 = *6*/0/1/1/1 Qf=1 (Dev.Buffer = 4096) / not Invert / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / *Scheme = 1-2* @ UnAttended  /Services Off + No Running Time / Octo Arc Prediction Upsampling / *SFS=0,4 max= 120*  XT Tweaks balanced load 43, nervous=100, cool when idle 1, Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Double Octo Arc Prediction Upsampling / -> USB with Dexa clock -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1 async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.3 (2ms) ->  direct to AMP: Gainclone mid high, Hypex DPS400 low, horn system (tractrix for mid/high, BD for bass with Oris200)
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« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2013, 03:16:21 pm »

Hey Mani,

Quote
So, when will this become a reality in XX/multi-channel-NOS1?

What about 6-9 months from now ?
One thing, the solution will be quite different from what you or anyone expects. The (electrical Wink) design of it is going on right now and anticipate these speakers (anyone's for that matter).
oops

Quote
For now, would it be possible for me to apply similar LF DSP with my Swing MkIIs, do you think? Maybe too much work and not possible without your 'secret alignment tricks'?

I don't see why not, although I'd have to do it and no Swings are around here. But might you happen to have a chance to listen to the Orelino's then I don't think you want that much anymore.
And the very last you would want is listen through headphones. Just saying. innocent

Hehe, Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2013, 04:08:27 pm »

Leo,

Quote
'a general loudspeaker'...... Are you joking Peter?

Well, still it is meant to be just that as well. What I do see though is that when the slightest is wrong (and this can also come from the source) there's buzzing and to my ears this doesn't sound great. I guess it depends on what one is used to (but those who own the NOS1 compare with your old D/A converters ?). So, one of my main (really) scary issues I went through the past two weeks is that it doesn't sound neutral (like how I talked about that). So, creating that real roar and unheard low "under sound" is not so difficult, but when frequencies jump out there it's all a very powerful buzz. Or otherwise think like this : when I claim (like I always and ever do) that XXHighEnd already eliminates standing waves to the larger degree and that the NOS1 "adds" to that heavily, without that people could be in trouble. On the other hand :

I already anticipated on that by just tweaking OUT the more sub low. Thus where it is there where we can expect things to go wrong first, it is a matter of grabbing that config file which cuts to 30Hz. Or 40Hz or whatever. This part is fairly easy to do by everyone, as long as it is about "taking out". Adding, like I did yesterday (was at 23Hz, now at 18Hz) is a complete different matter. And I also know for 100% sure that this can't be done without analyser. This is about those commonly known "loudspeaker software" appliances just not working, especially not in the (very) low frequency area.
It took me close to 3 hours, while before I just couldn't do it at all (see my remark about dropping like a stone beyond 23Hz). Btw, as said, 17Hz will also be possible, and maybe even 16. But at some stage we run into the "movie players" and those frequencies really being (heavily) used, and that at far higher SPL. So it is not wise to go further than what can be expected for SPL (120 ?). Remember, the lower the frequency the more excursion needed for the same level.
There's more to say about this (like room size matters), but maybe 18Hz is sufficiently crazy ?
(for 100% sure I will be talking about this later but then in a somewhat different context - you'll see ...)

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2013, 05:17:33 pm »

Sup guys,
I wish I was at this X-fi show too for this. Actually should be over there somewhere since I am a Polak. Now in Oz though.
O well, guess just have to wait until these speakers are in my own room here.... since I`ve ordered a pair already  yes
Actually  will have whole P1/Bert system, since I`m already the very VERY proud owner of NOS1 and XXcomputer.
Well IDC about searching other companies/components anymore. Now just give P1 all my wads and I simply know I will have want I want - the best sound! Much easier now.
And to think at first(long ago) I thought this damn guy was just possibly full of......... beer?
P1, am I allowed to disclose the exact speaker I am getting yet? Well I don`t even know myself exactly. I`m told it is similar to this speaker.  Apparently has something to do with the fridge or something. Hmmm  Can`t wait though w/e it is.
Enjoyed reading your latest after the fact post too P1. Wow.
It`s all getting very exciting isn`t it. Great stuff man!
Watch that X button though. Silly sober moment again?

The name is P4A  1eye
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« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2013, 01:01:21 am »

Peter,

You have me salivating with the description you give about the prowess of these speakers...
To not recognize music I used to for many years is something you already brought in here with XXHE and the NOS1. To make another leap forward in quality seems out of reach for me. Something I would like to hear at least one time, but then I could easily stop caring for what I already own, that brings me tons of pleasure already...
Anyway,thanks for sharing this with us.

Alain

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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2013, 01:11:14 am »

Quote
P1, am I allowed [...]

Hey P4A, no please.
P1 Happy
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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