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Author Topic: Testing a few digital cables  (Read 77523 times)
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PeterSt
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« Reply #105 on: November 07, 2016, 04:43:42 pm »

With the danger of me getting crazy of it, I double checked the both mR files against the original. Both deviate downwards.

How can the two mR files against each other deviate both upwards (positive) and downwards (negative) ?

There must be something I am missing myself now in the realm of the first file I load is taken for reference, the second uses. Earlier on I did not see that (so possibly I have a post wrong about "downwards" or "upwards") but with a result deviating both ways it seems hard to do something wrong.
But if I can't make the results logically / consistent, something else may be wrong (as well). But what ?
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A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
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PeterSt
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« Reply #106 on: November 07, 2016, 04:47:05 pm »

Quote
Even if the Tascam is to 'blame' for these deviations, surely the error is small enough to allow its use in the DAC/ADC chain that I posted earlier today?

Maybe not ?
Unless I am deaf after all, the difference was very easy to hear. So I'd say that this makes everything illegal.

And whether it is the Tascam ? that seems obvious, but then I first like to understand my findings.

Peter
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A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
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*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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manisandher
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« Reply #107 on: November 07, 2016, 05:00:26 pm »

#1 vs #3, same story.

Ah, luckily I saw that wrongly !

You first thought the deviations in both #2 and #3 were going downwards. Something made you change your mind about those in #3. Are you sure that whatever it was that made you change your mind was absolutely valid?

Mani.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #108 on: November 07, 2016, 05:24:57 pm »

Yes. So that too will have been caused by which file was loaded first (in the analysis of two). So do that a next time and swap the both and it will show the other way around.
If course I did not know this, as it is the very first time such a deviation to one side appears on my screen.

Btw for the same reason at first I could not see it, because the screen resolution is actually too low to see such a one-side deviation normally (two is fine, and that I am used to (dither). So I had to amplify the differences to make them appear (the analysis telling me 8.9M mismatches to be there anyway).
What I showed (screenshots) is no amplified by 24dB.

Anyway, this does not explain how the difference of the two mR recordings is both ways, up and down. However, it could be explained by the Tascam (or something else) deviating to one side at random (and once it deviates to one side, it keeps on doing that).

Hey ... maybe your recording is not bit perfect "officially". I mean, supposed you do this recording via Windows, then that recording too can be done in Exclusive Mode or Shared Mode. And what I recall is that you can't play and record both in Exclusive Mode. So or example, play back via XXHighEnd (always Exclusive Mode) and record that on the same PC (WASAPI) can't work. Not that you have been doing that (I'd say) but only to get the idea of what can be going on.
Whether that implies what we are seeing ... I can't tell. Anyway dither should deviate both ways.

Maybe I will dream about it and come up tomorrrow with what we're missing.

Regards,
Peter

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A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

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« Reply #109 on: November 07, 2016, 05:30:00 pm »

Maybe I will dream about it and come up tomorrrow with what we're missing.

Thanks for doing all this Peter - I know it can't be of much interest to anyone else, but it certainly is to me.

Sweet dreams Wink

Mani.
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« Reply #110 on: November 07, 2016, 08:39:38 pm »

I have a camp here and wake up and there are three pages to read in the morning.  I can see that Peter just lost most of his day to this, but I can also see that this might lead somewhere as well if the results can be understood.
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« Reply #111 on: November 08, 2016, 08:08:02 am »


Right below we have the original and each of the samples is 5 (first row).
On the second row we have recorded it, and some are lower than the orginal (4). The deviation shows on the 3rd row.

555555
545445
0-0--0

We make another recording which you see on the second row.
On the first row we put the first recording (first row here is the same as the second row above).
The deviation is shown on the third row again.

545445
454454
-+-0+-

And we see how the plus and minus appear.

Peter
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A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2016, 08:24:33 am »

And we see how the plus and minus appear.

Haha, of course!

Mani.
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« Reply #113 on: November 08, 2016, 08:31:16 am »

So, any thoughts on why #2 vs. #1 is all downwards and #3 vs. #1 is all upwards? (BTW, the guy over at ASR believes both are downwards.)

Another guy at ASR has taken a listen to the files and agrees with my initial subjective assessment of how #2 or #3 differ in sound. He's also listened to #8 and #9 (through DAC/ADC chain) and can hear differences there too.

Mani.
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« Reply #114 on: November 08, 2016, 08:38:42 am »

Mani,

#1 vs #3 is downward too. And as I said in one of the last posts yesterday : here or there I can have that judged that wrongly because it depends on which you load first (which becomes implicitly the reference and I did not know that).

But also see below ... at (my) first glance this goes upward. But it really does not ... I am tricked by the long beginning being down of the upper channel.

Sorry for the wider screenshot.

Peter


* Dither05.png (6.88 KB, 1317x464 - viewed 602 times.)
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #115 on: November 08, 2016, 08:46:24 am »

Quote
Hey ... maybe your recording is not bit perfect "officially". I mean, supposed you do this recording via Windows,

Mani, what about this ?
So where does your Tascam recording software run ?

Thanks,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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manisandher
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« Reply #116 on: November 08, 2016, 09:07:13 am »

The Tascam is a stand-alone unit with its inbuilt software - no connection to any PC. I record straight to an SD card in the Tascam. I then take the SD card out of the Tascam and transfer the files to my PC.

I have an old CD/DVD player here with an spdif output. Later, I will take a capture and then we can compare to the CD rip.

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
manisandher
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« Reply #117 on: November 08, 2016, 06:55:04 pm »

Hey Peter, I had two objectives for doing these tests:
1) Figure out how good my current ADC is - it's a 20 year old unit (older than my previous PMII), and I needed to know whether it's up to the job of digitizing my vinyl
2) Figure out which digital transport to use in my office

I now have the answers to both of these and I'm happy to put this whole endeavour to bed. But let me know if you'd like me to do anything else with the Tascam.

Thanks again for all your effort.

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
Robert
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« Reply #118 on: November 08, 2016, 11:23:34 pm »

Late reply for what its worth nothing new but

Quote
I like spikes better than pits.
But I also like spikes better than smooth (which we can dedicate #1).

I agree with this statement.

I listened last evening and through my setup, preferred original #1.

Found other 2 slightly coloured(as you would expect) preferring #3 MachII over #2 for sound.

Would have to say my sound has never been better with current XX settings. Someone is suggesting on CA, CD is still better. Obviously hasn't got XXhighend.

Robert


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Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 12/24 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~997MHz, 48GB, W10, Pro64, Ver 14393, No updates,
XXhighend Ver 2.11a, Ram OS, Settings:Q1/-/3/4/5 = *14*/-/*0*/*0*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max *10.13*) / Disable Cracks Off / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ UnAttended / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 62 / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering *Low* (16x)
Music on LAN, Phasure Lush^3 USB cable
Oppo 205 UDP Dac
Nordost Heimdall II interconnects and Nordost Heimdall II Power Cords, Audioquest power cords
Minidsp Flex digital 2 way Crossover 167hz
Unity Audio Boulder MKI Active Monitors x 2
JLAudio 12 Active Subs x 2
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