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Author Topic: HOW IVE BUILT MY NEW PC FOR XXHIGHEND AND WHY IVE CHOSEN THE COMPONENTS  (Read 153893 times)
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boleary
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« Reply #120 on: May 18, 2012, 05:05:02 pm »

Thanks Juan, now that is some sage advice. Happy I'm afraid I'm a lot less technically experienced than most in this forum. I think I've settled on beginning this project with fan cooling, but having a case that can evolve into water cooling...on the other hand I can be a risk taker who jumps right into difficult waters (results vary, somtimes foolish sometimes brave!). However, given that my funds are a bit limited, your words really hit the mark.

Praphan, I very much appreciate your input too. As I'm all about function and don't care much about form, the open air test bench may be the alternative, if I do decide to run over the cliff.

Will be working through the weekiend in Nashville, so I won't have much time to put into the project, though I am excited about checking out the live music scene!
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« Reply #121 on: May 26, 2012, 01:52:25 pm »

Oh the voices in my head....thanks to all who have posted in this thread.

I went ahead and water cooled (Zalman Reserator 1 v2)and used a cheap (Boy....do I mean cheap, $39!) case with a Corsair AX650.

MB is an ASUS P9-X79WS witn 16 gigs of 1600 DDR3--3930kcpu.

Let me just say that my old Dell Core 2 Duo, 32 bit,  did a fine job, but  I now have MORE of every range. The bass, in particular, has gone to another league entirely.

However the best....I now have on the fly volume control, if nothing else that was my primary goal!

Again, thanks to all.
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MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W1086/16 Gigs 1600 DDR3@824MHz / Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *6*/1/1/*0* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02, when I can get away with it, otherwise .06/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off /  No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On/ 8x Upsampling
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« Reply #122 on: June 23, 2012, 02:35:37 pm »

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Generally faster was better.

I am not so sure Stefano said that ?
And actually I'd think it is the other way around (theory only !)

Peter

Edit : FWIW I have mine running at 833Mhz (can do 2100).

Last night I remembered the above exchange from earlier in this thread. I went into the ASUS bios and, in the Ai Tweaker (overclocking) section I played around with the memory frequency settings. I've always used the EZ Automatic overclocking function of the bios and have wondered why it automatically set the memory frequency to 1373 MHz when I have GSkill-1600, CL9-9-9-24. Anyway I set the Memory frequency to 1648, 1373, and 1098 and gave each a listen. There was a very significant change in sound for the better the lower the frequency. There is a 824 Mhz setting I've yet to try, but it seemed that the sound became so delicate and smooth at 1098 that it I really need to listen "here" for a while before changing this setting again.

Just an FYI regarding things I don't understand but which my button pushing nature and ears regard as worthwhile!
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MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W1086/16 Gigs 1600 DDR3@824MHz / Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *6*/1/1/*0* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02, when I can get away with it, otherwise .06/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off /  No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On/ 8x Upsampling
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« Reply #123 on: June 23, 2012, 10:27:46 pm »

Brian hi,

I will take a look at the memory speed as well, in the past I have always gone for faster settings but this sounds very promising.

Post coming up soon on the Adnaco fibre interface, there is more evidanve now of its effect, Paul has been borrowing my setup to try out whilst I sort out my amp. I think it has made quite a posertive impression.

Paul,

Please post your thoughts on the Adnaco if you would like to.

All the best,

Nick.
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Chronos Reference Music Server with full linear ATx PSU option => XX V1.186a / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 4ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 6,0,23,1,1 / xQ1 =1 unattended / SFS 0.32Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 1ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 43 / Nervous Rate 1 / Cool when Idle 1 / Provide Stable Power 1 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre-amp => Bi-amped and bridged Gainclones => Avantguard Duos.

System powered from two 3kva balanced mains isolation transformers.
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« Reply #124 on: June 24, 2012, 08:31:56 am »

Hi Brian,

maybe buildung a Rolls-Royce and driving it with 50 miles/hour could be a solution. Additionally I got better results by reducing the processor speed and switching the AMD from unganged to ganged mode for memory transfers. Ganged meanns that every core is using the 128 bit memory bus exclusively - the other cores must wait.

Georg
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USB3 Silverstone isolated → Short cable → Intona (Standard) → Clairixia cable
→WaveIO@dddac1794/@Soekris DAM1021
→Gainclone → TQWT 9710M/01 + BMS 4524 Horn
→Anaview ALC0300-1300 → Quad ESL63 Pro
→Funk MTX Monitor → AKG K701
Mains conditioning without switching controller: RFT Netzregler Nr. 120
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« Reply #125 on: June 24, 2012, 09:48:11 am »

Hi Nick - I have a couple more things to try and will then post my experiences in a new thread I suspect it will be a biggish thread.

Best

P
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« Reply #126 on: June 24, 2012, 12:59:25 pm »

Most of us are using now the USB 3.0 as the interface to connect the music pc to a) external hdds, b) to connect the music pc to the NOS1.
The advantage to improve the USB 3.0 speed for transferring data is obvious but I wonder if the speed of the USB 3.0 has any influence in the sound quality when transferring data to the NOS1.

Ive found this interesting review: Faster USB 3.0 Performance: Examining UASP And Turbo Mode http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-3-uas-turbo,3215.html

Turbo mode can be found in the bios (at least in the Asus boards) and can help to burst the USB 3.0 performance. http://event.asus.com/mb/2010/The_Best_USB3_Experience/The_UASP_For_USB3.0.htm

Manually enabling Turbo mode on a board from a vendor that doesn't offer its own utility is possible by modifying the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINES\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\usbstor\054C00C1 registry key. Add a 32-bit DWORD value named "MaximumTransferLength" and specify the maximum transfer size value between 65535 (64 KB) and 2097120 (2 MB) in the data field.

I enabled Turbo mode in both ways, in the bios and in in the registry and it seems to me that now I have a better sound.
Maybe others could test it and let us know about it.

Best regards,
Juan
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Audio Pc: Processor i7 970: 3200MHz (reduced to 1668MHz), 6+6 cores/ RAM Corsair DDR3, 24Gb, 1333MHz/ Mb Asus X58 Sabertooth/ OS and XXHE in Peters RAM-Disk / The CPU fan is the only one: NF-S12A (600rpm/6.7db)/ No graphic card/ Power supply: Seasonic SS-400FL2, fanless/ PCIe: Silverstone USB 3.0 SST-EC04-P (both sides isolated)

Configuration and Updates in HOW IVE BUILT MY NEW PC...http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1673.0

XXHighEnd: 2.05. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN/ KS:Phasure NOS1 Out 4.0/ #4 Engine/ Adaptive Mode/ Q1=14, Q3,Q4,Q5=1, xQ1=1/ Dev.Buffer: 4096/ ClockRes: 1ms/ Straight Contiguous/ SFS: 0.70 (max 60)/ Not Invert/ Phase Alignment Off/ Allow format change/ Decode HDCD/ Playerprio: Low/ ThreadPrio: Real Time/ Scheme: Core 3-5/ UnAttended/ Not Switch during Playback Off/ Playback Drive none/ UnAttended/ Include Garbage Collect/ Copy to XX Drive by standard/ Always clear Proxy before Playback/ Stop Desktop Services/ Stop Remaining Services/ Stop All Services: Off/ Keep LAN Services: On - Persist: Off/ Use Remote Desktop/ Show as WallPaper/ Show back/ At Attended/ Show mirror back/ OSD Text: On/ Running Time: Off/ NrmVolume on or off/ Minimize OS/ XTweaks : Balanced Load 63/ Nervous Rate 1/ Cool when Idle 1/ Provide Stable Power 1/ Utilize Cores always 1/ Time Performance Index: Not the best/ Time Stability Off/ Custom Filter Mid 705600.

Music Server PC (W10) totally silent with OS (W10) in SSD and music inside in SSDs - RDC > Ethernet Gigabyte cable 3m > Audio Pc > USB Clairixa cable 0.20m> Intona (industrial v., no-flash mod.) > USB Clairixa cable 1.80m> PHASURE NOS1a-75B (Driver v1.0.4) > Blaxius BNC interconnects > Genelec 1037B 3-Way Active speakers with BNC inputs
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« Reply #127 on: June 24, 2012, 01:50:15 pm »

Hi Brian,

maybe buildung a Rolls-Royce and driving it with 50 miles/hour could be a solution. Additionally I got better results by reducing the processor speed and switching the AMD from unganged to ganged mode for memory transfers. Ganged meanns that every core is using the 128 bit memory bus exclusively - the other cores must wait.

Georg

Hi Georg, Per Uncle Google, it looks like "ganged" is an AMD only tweak. Don't know if there is an Intell equivlent. I guess one buys a Rolls Royce to be as insulated from road vibrations as possible. Of course never exceeding 50 mph keeps those vibrations to a minimum.  Happy

Brian
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« Reply #128 on: June 25, 2012, 10:19:09 pm »

Hi Brian,

tried the memory tweak too, but setting the lowest speed possible. Very smooth and relaxed sound. Fits optimal to Oscar Peterson / Fred Astaire Complete Norman Granz Sessions  Happy

Best regards,
Georg
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Windows 10 - XXHE 2.04 - PC ASUS M5A97 EVO R2.0 / Seasonic P-400FL Platin / 8 CPU cores @0.8GHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 10074, music local HD, XXHighend on 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk), Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback / Playback Drive 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk) / UnAttended (Just Start) / All Services Off / No WallPaper / No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 63 / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = On / Custom filter high 352800 (NOS)
USB3 Silverstone isolated → Short cable → Intona (Standard) → Clairixia cable
→WaveIO@dddac1794/@Soekris DAM1021
→Gainclone → TQWT 9710M/01 + BMS 4524 Horn
→Anaview ALC0300-1300 → Quad ESL63 Pro
→Funk MTX Monitor → AKG K701
Mains conditioning without switching controller: RFT Netzregler Nr. 120
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« Reply #129 on: June 25, 2012, 11:48:52 pm »

Glad to hear it worked for you too, Georg. I tried the lowest setting 848 MHz and the sound was a bit too relaxed or too "woody" sounding so I went back to the 1048 (I think that's it) setting. Gotta be on the look out for those little statments from Peter; like gold nuggets, they are.  Happy
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« Reply #130 on: June 26, 2012, 08:52:11 am »

Quote
Gotta be on the look out for those little statments from Peter; like gold nuggets, they are.  Happy

Maybe I am not sure myself why I'm sometimes thinking what I think. But okay, it works out a lot. Wink

But by now I really wonder what's they actual key factor when we talk about "just PC's". I mean, I now have that hexa core running myself in optima forma, but how to relate the sound to what "happened" ?
Sometimes (if not always) I think it is too difficult to proceed on things. This may be one of them. Look :

What this PC shows as the very first is a snap unheard. Bass has a resolution - the same. You even hear the stings vibrate of a cello (this was my aim ever back : make the somewhat higher frequencies "vibe" as well, and the instrument to do that was a cello in my view). But why ?
IIRC the memory is at 1333 which was the default. CPU runs at 4GHz (which is not the default, that's 3.2GHz). Ok, fine.

An important variable in the equation is that super-duper 0.9z-7 feature (yea yea, it will come to you, I'm sure Happy), and on my normal audio PC day before yesterday I shut it off to compare again. Unlistenable. Remember, this is what you listen to today; all is relative and for me too it was the best. Today ? unlistenable. Sheer distortion. And I am the most serious. So ...

Quote
tried the memory tweak too, but setting the lowest speed possible. Very smooth and relaxed sound.

Thus, smoothened things a bit and now the distortion is less audible ? should be something like that IMO. But when so, it should mean that the higher setting is the better, if only first that other distortion is out of the way. Thus imagine that you tweaked it the exact other way around. Instead of towards moody, it's going towards metal. And *then* you are not disturbed by anything. Something like that I perceive from that hexa core PC.

If it is correct that the higher settings (yea what ? higher current draw or higher freuency current draw ! -> smoothening !) create the better resolution, I should be able to proove that. Thus, it looks like I can have it because of less inherent distortion, and then there should be more snap without it being disturbing.

By now I am close to being as far as the "snap level" being a measure by itself. Thus, the less snap the worse it should be, and the other way around. However, it is not allowed to have yourself disturbed by harshness jumping in at the more snap levels. When the most snap is there, it is time to work on the harshness. Of course this is not to be done by eliminating the harshness, but by eliminating the distortion which comes from elsewere. And I know, this is undoable ... it would come down to getting another ampo etc., right ?

No, not right. Not right because you will be having 0.9z-7.

By the time you have that, you will start to be a theoretical nerd, like me. So, what I noticed with my normal audio PC is that this most pure sound is accompanied with less snap. Think like the stick hitting the cymbal being less audible, while the cymbal itself is okay. But it can't be, because pure = pure and it's main cause is higher resolution (I'm sure). This is up to the attack of an electric guitar being not there at flagiolettes, while another situation shows you the attack is there for sure. And I said it more often, flagiolettes are (somehow) the most difficult to bring forward (possibly they contain all the harmonics in the world - I didn't look it up.

So, we have that other PC, and suddenly all comes together. A bit of the USB3 solution, which *also* was just necessary to let my super-tweak work out.

Guys, when we operate at this really high level of squeezing out the best, and we see how much difference these non-sense appliances make - especially when we don't know the real theory behind it all (which actualy shouldn't even exist), we must not forget to re-judge, for example !, Vista and the lot. Not that I am telling you that we really should do that, but what I do say is that no element operates on its own. And again, if I now listen to that "distorted" pre-0.9z-7 sound, how could I even have been judging something like Vista. Or an SSD. Or RAMdisc. Whatever. Everything.

It is going to get too compleeeexx ...
(but in the mean time I am trying to see the difference between my speakers and the real woman singing. Okay, right. I see the difference. But I can't hear it anymore ... teasing)
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XXHighEnd PC -> i7 3930K Hyperthreading On (12 cores) @~420MHz (!), 16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0* *from RAM*, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *63* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #131 on: June 26, 2012, 10:51:05 am »

I was sitting in my favourite armchair last night sending myself nuts (OK so I am already) listening to fibre or perfluorinated polymer plastic (POF) versus Copper (Cu) USB interlinks (chemical names for Peter ha ha).

Once I settled on my preferred link (more later) I sat back and began to think surely now, surely this time the SQ is as good as it gets. So what I was listening to is muddled and distorted compared with what is coming in 0.9z-7  -  Peter you are such a tease!!!

P
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« Reply #132 on: June 26, 2012, 01:00:30 pm »

Might SFS be one of those areas we revisit? To me the change in sound caused by changing the memory speed was very, very similar to changing SFS, but in the opposite direction: increasing SFS smoothes the sound and reduces harshness the same way that reducing memory speed does.

Just a thought....
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« Reply #133 on: June 26, 2012, 03:39:37 pm »

An important variable in the equation is that super-duper 0.9z-7 feature (yea yea, it will come to you, I'm sure Happy), and on my normal audio PC day before yesterday I shut it off to compare again. Unlistenable. Remember, this is what you listen to today; all is relative and for me too it was the best. Today ? unlistenable. Sheer distortion. And I am the most serious.

Hi Guys, greetings from Rio (I'm in Brazil for a few days business)! Far be it for me to preach to anyone, but as soon as Peter mentioned his Noble-winning feature, I pretty much stopped tweaking all together, with a view that it was pointless. But I have a few weeks off in July and hope to be able to join the fun then.

Thanks to everyone who's shared their experiences to date - there will be so much to play around with... can't wait...

Mani.
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PC 'Le Monster': *full linear ATX PSU* / CaseLabs W8 / *2x Neutron Star clocks on mobo* / *PCIe USB with Neutron Star clock* / i7 3960X / hyperthreading ON / 16GB RAM / Win 10586.0 on RAM-OS (all music on server) / controlled by RDC / no GPU card installed
XXHighEnd: 2.05 / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=14 /  xQ1=1 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=0.07 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = Min / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 16x Custom (Low) / Peak Extend = OFF / Unattended / Minimize OS / Phase Alignment = OFF / XTweaks = 63, 1, 1, 1, 1
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« Reply #134 on: June 26, 2012, 04:43:25 pm »

Hi Guys, greetings from Rio
Mani.

Tall and tan and young and lonely
The girl from ipanema goes walking
And when she passes
Each one she passes goes haaa...
 holiday

Enjoy it, Mani!!

Best regards,
Juan
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Audio Pc: Processor i7 970: 3200MHz (reduced to 1668MHz), 6+6 cores/ RAM Corsair DDR3, 24Gb, 1333MHz/ Mb Asus X58 Sabertooth/ OS and XXHE in Peters RAM-Disk / The CPU fan is the only one: NF-S12A (600rpm/6.7db)/ No graphic card/ Power supply: Seasonic SS-400FL2, fanless/ PCIe: Silverstone USB 3.0 SST-EC04-P (both sides isolated)

Configuration and Updates in HOW IVE BUILT MY NEW PC...http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1673.0

XXHighEnd: 2.05. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN/ KS:Phasure NOS1 Out 4.0/ #4 Engine/ Adaptive Mode/ Q1=14, Q3,Q4,Q5=1, xQ1=1/ Dev.Buffer: 4096/ ClockRes: 1ms/ Straight Contiguous/ SFS: 0.70 (max 60)/ Not Invert/ Phase Alignment Off/ Allow format change/ Decode HDCD/ Playerprio: Low/ ThreadPrio: Real Time/ Scheme: Core 3-5/ UnAttended/ Not Switch during Playback Off/ Playback Drive none/ UnAttended/ Include Garbage Collect/ Copy to XX Drive by standard/ Always clear Proxy before Playback/ Stop Desktop Services/ Stop Remaining Services/ Stop All Services: Off/ Keep LAN Services: On - Persist: Off/ Use Remote Desktop/ Show as WallPaper/ Show back/ At Attended/ Show mirror back/ OSD Text: On/ Running Time: Off/ NrmVolume on or off/ Minimize OS/ XTweaks : Balanced Load 63/ Nervous Rate 1/ Cool when Idle 1/ Provide Stable Power 1/ Utilize Cores always 1/ Time Performance Index: Not the best/ Time Stability Off/ Custom Filter Mid 705600.

Music Server PC (W10) totally silent with OS (W10) in SSD and music inside in SSDs - RDC > Ethernet Gigabyte cable 3m > Audio Pc > USB Clairixa cable 0.20m> Intona (industrial v., no-flash mod.) > USB Clairixa cable 1.80m> PHASURE NOS1a-75B (Driver v1.0.4) > Blaxius BNC interconnects > Genelec 1037B 3-Way Active speakers with BNC inputs
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