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Author Topic: World's first NOS 24/384 filterless DAC  (Read 548389 times)
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leifchristensen
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only the simplest can accommodate the most complex


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« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2008, 04:02:30 pm »

ok looks fine but I would not use screw terminals for signal connections
just my 2 cents
best
leif
and now I´m off to radio shack key west with my boys and wifie,since it´s raining anyway Happy
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ASUS P5K-E/Intelquad6600/8gbkingston6400ram/SUPERTALENT ULTRA SSD 64GB systemdisk+4x500wdmusicdiscs/vista ultimate64bit/XXplayer ver.0.9z-2/AP QUAD q4(15/15/0/0)/player priolow/threadpriorealtime+4x,John Kenny modified/batterypowered clocks HiFace,  Twisted Pear Buffalo II reference dac and Avantgarde Trio custom  active basstowers (4xBD-15channel)powered by dual BD-30 amps,eq´ed by Rod Elliot P-84 and passively crossed over@130hZ with custom 24db/oct. passive line lvlv filter by Phil Marchand  and diy cost no object 6c45-IT-300Bamps(Borderpatrol based)+ a SOLID phono setup
PeterSt
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« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2008, 02:17:05 pm »

Ok, this is merely for fun;

Look at the description below. THD is less than 0.0001%. That is goooood for a DAC. But what does it actually say ?

The two pictures show the result (measured at the output of the DAC) of feeding the ESS Sabre DAC with a pure square wave. The first picture shows what's left of it at 3000Hz and the second shows a nice pure sine at 10000Hz. I talked about that earlier in this topic.
To me the second picture shows a 100% distortion. But hey, what I do here won't be a measurement of THD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_harmonic_distortion). Right, but what to do with THD if this is the real life result ?


* ESS01.png (21.72 KB, 573x152 - viewed 4391 times.)

* OS-3000Hz.jpg (88.55 KB, 800x533 - viewed 4526 times.)

* OS-10000Hz.jpg (99.46 KB, 800x533 - viewed 4603 times.)
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A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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leifchristensen
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« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2008, 04:25:08 pm »

hmmmm
have you actually LISTENED to it?
or like Gary Dews of Borderpatrol said:
if it sounds good , it probably is Cool
best
Leif
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PeterSt
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« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2008, 05:46:48 pm »

Quote
if it sounds good , it probably is

But he copied Duke Ellington I think. Happy

But wait, I have a verdict by now. Just writing it ...
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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PeterSt
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« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2008, 07:35:01 pm »

... which is about the ESS Sabre DAC-chip in Buffalo application, with a sauce of "my" NOS1.

Well, first things first :

If there is any DAC that mimics vinyl, it is the Buffalo !!
I have been listening to the Buffalo for two (rather full) days, and stuff like from Henry Mancini just pictured my parents' living room with Thorens, Leak tube amp and Leak speakers (my father was a musician in an orhestra, teacher at the conservatorium and had a recording studio during his last years).

Until some time ago I always tried to copy that sound, and I never succeeded. And suddenly there it was ...
There is this massive wall of violins, and a great ease of letting everything sound right. Good positioning of the orchestra's instruments.
A great ease ...

Yeah, violins roll over you indeed like a wall of sound. That orchestra really is massive.
A bit messy too ...

And then it started to disturbe me. Why ? how ?
It seemed I had a brain damage;
Something inside me wanted to hear which instruments were playing, but it could not happen. I heard copper, but what copper ?
I heard reeds, but was in disagreement with my wife whether it was a hobo or a clarinet. No, a sax would be out of the question. Or maybe it was ?

I heard massive violins from my early days, but I could not hear *the* violins. It could be 4 or 12 or 35.
I heard bassy sound, but from what ?
I heard smashing cymbals, but they were grey ...

They were grey like cymbals from vinyl are grey. Yeah, everything is grey. Greyish.

Throughout S's are too harsh. When 20 background girls are singing the volume must go down.
Still, the same sound as from my young days. That was hi-fi ...

Today at 10 am I started to play my regular bunch of test records, and if one thing was not lacking it was detail.
Hmm ...
Also played the "square wave" tests (mainly Yello) and it ocurred to me I wanted to live with it. But (like with vinly) after an hours or so it occurred to me that all cymbals sounded the same. And again grey. Good by itself, but grey and uninteresting.
Bass seemed to work ok (better than my exptectations), but not as how I got used to lately. But still ...

Then I found that actually nothing got me into the music. I heard basses, I heard saxes, I heard voices, but they were all without feeling.
Was I focusing too much on technicalities maybe ?

Then it occuurred to me that actually dynamics were missing. The thrill of the metal at (double) basses wasn't there. There wasn't any smashing, no hitting on cymbals, and, well, trumpets were too smooth.

A great deal of the day I had in minf that the ESS people possibly had overcome the rounding of squares because of (massive) oversampling, just because all the detail which could be heard. Yello sounded different, but again I was ready to accept that.
But why were the musicians not playing for *me* ?
That's when I grabbed the scope (see earlier thread).
So I really tried and was completely open to it. In fact I at last heard what I had been seeking for so long. The sound of the living room I grew up ...


I must tell you that there another small background to really want to try to get the Buffalo "work";
The NOS1 exposed noise which made me mad. Some high frequency stuff I couldn't bear. HF stuff that goes with you to bed, and with which you get up in the morning. It got me crazy.
Most of last week I have been trying to get it away, after I first could measure (by microphone) it really was there. A 17,5Khz tone which was 20dB louder than the music ...
This story by itself is many pages longer than the few lines I write about it here, but what it comes down to in short is that while the Buffalo would not allow this tone (which really is a steady tone) to be "amplified" hence changed at attenuating via the TVC I have, the NOS1 would. But this works exactly the other way around as well : the TVC can attenuate it with the NOS1, and in combination of things, it could get me the tone just above the noise level, as it could in the first place with the Buffalo.
More importantly, early this morning I found what causes this tone : my 380V pump of the central heating ... Also, other tones (at 15KHz and 19KHz) are there from the freezer in the basement. And although I have completely separated audio power groups with own earth, nothing can get it away. Not even a sine re-generating battery power plant !
But in the end I could get it down into the noise level, so all is fine for the moment. One thing : I have to use the TVC for it, which I really want not. New freezer and a new pump I guess ...


So at 4pm I changed back to the NOS1, and ran Mancini again. Right, so now you hear *the* violins. The background women can be counted again, and there's an enourmeous separation in everything. Background is black, and a brush sounds different from a hit on a chinese cymbal.
Pwew.

No, Mancini does not sound like in the young days, but hey, I don't want that !!
It is spirit I want. So yes, now the musicians are performing ... performing expecially for me.
No harsh S's anymore.
And that bass ... ha ! back again.


All together the difference between the two DACs is huge;
I truly believe the Buffalo may be the best oversampling DAC around, but it doesn't work *at all*. You're faked by its presented detail (btw the biggest trap anyway, like with T-amps and such).
Right now Jazz at the Lincoln is performing. I can tell you ... *that's* talking trumpets !

But what remains is the vinyl addicted. If I was one, I really would go for the Buffalo. I even don't recognize the PSU is underpowered. What made it sing, though, was connecting the ground of the SPDIF to both of the interlink grounds (at the output of the DAC). Possibly this is my situation only.
The plus opposed to vinly is that this goes lower (anyone heard sub-low from vinly ?).
So, if you imagine that squares can't be in vinyl grooved anyway (but what about reel-to-reel), technically the ESS Sabre / Buffalo might come just close - if not equal. Including the lacking dynamics ...

Now, don't shoot the piano player please. I really tried. evil
Peter


PS: The first picture below is the NOS1 filtered, and the second one filterless. Both at 22050 Hz this time. Not that this shows anything of the filtering itself (which would be about the frequency spectrum to pass through or not, although I tried 30000 Hz which shows the same; didn't try further), but there clearly is a difference electrically. I use filterless ... (which might change at decent A-B-ing later)
Dunno why there isn't any ringing with the filtered version, but as you can see the slopes of the squares aren't as steep.


* NOS-22050HZ-WithFilter.jpg (102.66 KB, 800x533 - viewed 4348 times.)

* NOS-22050Hz-WithoutFilter.jpg (103.34 KB, 800x533 - viewed 4305 times.)
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2008, 08:44:47 pm »

Have you ever dreamed of running the audio completely off the electrical grid? I have, heh.  Hoping for solar power, wind power... discovering some fast running underground stream to tap into...
I've shut off everything in the house at the circuit breaker level except the subpanel that runs the music system.... still get noise from the power lines... and I have a psaudio power plant running the front end and the computer on opposite leg of the audio equipment in the sub panel.  hehe oh well, I don't think I have a 17 khz tone, but a bit of a hum that can grow inexplicably louder once in a great while... knock on wood haven't heard it for a long while.
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« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2008, 08:16:27 am »

Quote
I don't think I have a 17 khz tone

Be careful. Why would I think I have such a thing ? It is the pure coincidence that the NOS1 amplifies it, and after two weeks of not attenuating that (no preamp) I got crazy of something. I heard it was more noisy than it sould, but that is just white noise. It's not what got me crazy.
And then I got the glorious idea of measuring with a microphone and prove whether I maybe heard ghosts.

With the amplification of the NOS1, this goes to -60dB ...


* General.png (7.21 KB, 662x373 - viewed 4313 times.)

* Pump + Freezer.png (2.25 KB, 545x167 - viewed 4165 times.)

* Pump only.png (1.89 KB, 554x146 - viewed 4074 times.)
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2008, 09:53:44 pm »

It seems things all turned out well for the NOS1.
Now, I'm only waiting to listen to it myself Wink
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« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2009, 11:37:12 am »

It seems things all turned out well for the NOS1.
Now, I'm only waiting to listen to it myself Wink

Me too Telstar... sounds good !

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Troubleless playback.
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« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2009, 02:08:16 pm »

I will keep my attention on your progressings.
I must say, I am really satisfied with my own DAC (so far!). I have built, about two years ago, the Doede Douma Dac DDDac version two. The same one  Leifcristensen has. Mine is USB and battery-powered.
The reason I am looking around is, I can only play-back 44/16 files.
Since I am a llifetime-liverecording enthausiast and and do my recordings (orchestral and choir) ,for the last eight years or so on hard-disk 96/32, I need a really good way of playing back those files as well without the need rebuilding them to 44/16, as you will understand.
The things I am using now for that matter are the prodigy HD2 soundcard(intern), or the M-audio USB(extern).
I am looking for a better solution!
But......since it's all DIY and hobbying, for the sake of good musical audio reproduction, low cost investments are always a preference!

Hi Ed,

Although I gave some implied answer by describing the Buffalo experience, here is a response from some other angles :

I think we are all seeking for 100% natural playback through speakers. Possibly 99,99% of people may think this will never be possible because of various indirect reasons like "the room", "the speaker", "our ears", and any other IMHO *not* legitimate reason not to try.
I do, and I do that since I got myself the combination of an NOS DAC and (very) high resolution speakers, a few years ago. I took the hurdle of leaving "getting rid of disturbing things" and plunged in the pond of "how to get it more real". It is my assumption that 99,99% of people (not necessarily the same as the beforementioned) are still struggling with the "getting rid of the disturbances".

What I tried to express about the Buffalo (but did not spend too many words on in the end) is that it is so easy to see how the Buffalo will fit into "a" system. BUT this is related to how difficult that is for the NOS DAC.
With the Buffalo nothing seems critical, and the music flows to you as -indeed- vinyl would back in my old (ehh, young) days. I have things in mind like
- when the amp is not 100% it is not problem; the Buffalo will make it sing anyway;
- when the resolution of the speaker (or tweeter) isn't all that much, no problem; the Buffalo will get to you anyway;
- when you are not a critical listener, the Buffalo will be way better opposed to whatever it was you had ...

... when you had an oversampling DAC ...

To put the above into the perspective I felt all the time at listening to the Buffalo, each and every second springs to my mind how much more difficult it is for the non-oversampling DAC to perform;
You may recall the earlier days of the NOS DAC, where known people (a "Garmt" springs to my mind for our area) tend to be so sure that NOS was nice, as long as the whole orchestra didn't start to play together. Things get wild and rough and "difficult".
It is this what I got rid of a few years ago, and it is exactly this what I heard back through the Buffalo as being no problem at all (which says something about my gotting rid of it ... uhm), and ... it is more of a problem with the NOS1. unsure

Since I haven't been used to an OS DAC for a few years, the step "back" to that is bigger as how I recall the stepping from it back then;
Strangely enough the Buffalo even emphasizes the OS character, and I mean far more than my Fireface which I now and then used for testing 24/96/192. Thus, the Fireface is poor on all fronts, but I never perceived the OS principle form it so much, apart from synths being uninteresting.

If I would try to put things in a negative perspective for the Buffalo, I would say : this makes a mess of it all the best way possible.
But my context is not negative, and I really want to say something like : it is able to cohere all the different voices and things so that all is smooth and more smooth. As a bonus there's loads of detail as well.
And my objective expression would be : but smooth = smeared. Smeared at all the levels. The lack of dynamics (remember, compared to NOS) contributes to that. No, it is not the other way around, because the process itsels (heavy oversampling) just implies smearing. Or smoothing if you like. And *then* the dynamics have gone.

Dynamics is a technical matter, and it don't think it is a fact than you need them. It is a dimension yes, but by itself a dangerous one if your system is not up to it. E.g. when the speaker can't follow you end up with distortion because of it. So it depends ...
But :
Without the speed of transients, it is sheer impossible to mimic cymbals in the most natural way. Cymbals as *the* example for me to achieve in the most natural way the pas few years, and where I reached a limit at some stage. Or better : XxHighEnd seemed to have reached the limit, and I imagine an earlier version to be better at it than the current one. But has it ?

In fact the Buffalo -as a good OS DAC- shows what is happening really :
Where XXHighEnd can hardly deal with more than jitter influence at the source side (and a little more), the OS DAC brings you back into the world of disturbances. The cymbals are just gray again. Not really distortion like, but just gray. Nothing much different from vinyl I'd say.
In *my* case another type of "disturbing" entered my life : my brain fighting with the instruments not being recognized anymore. Try to imagine this : without the knowledge of this being possible, no problem (no matter a live performance tells you different), but with the knowledge it disturbs all over.
I am fairly sure that anyone being used to an OS DAC in the first place, would not be disturbed by this. Like gray cymbals are common, and the best to achieve as long as no distortion is heard.

Now back to the NOS1 ...

Besides the bass I raved about throughout in this topic, I now rave the same about the cymbals;
I have loads of recordings from which I would swear the whole of the performance can't be bettered. Including the cymbals and all the variants of it.
I told it earlier, now it comes to be that brushes (on a snare) are more difficult than enything else. Before (with my old NOS DAC) they already got out of the noise (two years ago I was listening with my ears in the speaker to find out what noise I heard), but only being a so loud(er) noise that it couldn't be noise itself, and you could regocnize that brushes were going on. So, that was one "disturbance" less. Today ? hmm ... like every bassis is suddenly plunking the strings by 5cm, all those Jazz idiots seem to prefer brushes over sticks. Yes, they are up front now ... that loud.
But they are not good enough. Too less colour opposed to reality. Too much "noise".

The latter might be an example of what may happen with the NOS DAC. It puts every instrument in itself, with the consequence it must be good. If it is not good enough, but the instrument is profoundly there anyway, you have a problem. A relative problem of course, and maybe I am the only one having it (possibly stribing too much for perfection).

When I say I have loads of recordings which just mimic reality, I must add to that that I also now have loads of recordings that shout;
Most people (if not all but me) would say that this is a bad recording. Maybe so, but my experience tells me that when an album doesn't sound good, it is the equipment (the software player being "equipment" just the same) doing it to you. It happened so many times, and I just know I am right in this.

It very well can be so that the NOS1 runs me into limits of my system. And it can be;
A long time ago I measured my old DAC for squares with the scope, and I don't recall anything so beautifully remaining a square as I showed a few posts back. This was merely like the 3000Hz picture of the Buffalo, but then at 20KHz. So, the NOS1 should be much "sharper";
Besides the more fragile detail (like hearing the feedback of a cymbal onto the stick) this creates a "force" in the mid area which currently comes to me a standing waves in that area, 95% certainly incurred by my horn speakers and the internal resonance. With XXHighEnd tweaks this happened before, and a trumpet started to be able to resonate the horn, and perceived the sound of the horn. This too was just more square sound, and the voice of Mark Knopfler could do it too.

The latter again is an example of something which would never be incurred by the Buffalo (hence ESS Sabre chip). Never.

So ... all 'n all you see that NOS (and certainly the NOS1) is way way way more live like and natural when the rest of your system coorporates. But if your system does not, you run into problems much quicker with NOS.
For me, right now, this means that I must try tweaking with XXHighEnd first. I never did that so far, and just used the old settings. Wasn't of any use so far either, because just yesterday I closed the case the NOS1 is in, and all should sound like ... well, intended.

Peter
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« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2009, 03:06:53 pm »

Good, you closed the case!
And did you put a wire from the case to the real earth?
I experimented with this lately and found this removes all the electrosmog and makes the high frequencies really shine.
I think the best way is to make a central (city!) heating (in my case) or a waterpipe as a star earth to all the metal cases.
But then the cases have to float and not be connected through a balanced wire or electrical earth connection through te mains.
In my cas the vinyl got new live after I connected it this way at the most sensitive part (the arm) to the central city heating.
Big surprise, XXHE sounds better too! (Just my 1 cent)
But only do experiments with this if you know what your doing!!!
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« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2009, 03:42:33 pm »

Quote
And did you put a wire from the case to the real earth?

No, not yet. First I want to see how things work out the usual way (for me, which is exactly like you are doing).
In this case things might me different, and since it would be the first device connected to mains ground anyway ...
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2009, 04:48:35 pm »

Quote
it would be the first device connected to mains ground anyway ...

Don't make your starearth like this:


* P8013311-groot.jpg (177.2 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 4130 times.)
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« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2009, 09:06:31 am »

Ok, a small update.

I think I have everything under control for connections and the best sound, and I must say that besides all the virtues I mentioned earlier, the DAC now also sounds "sweet".

Sweet is in contrast to the crispyness and sharpness (sharp in the good sense !) an NOS DAC usually shows, and which can be more refined. Thus, that crispyness and all, also shows a kind of roughness, and where "roughness" is a negative, I managed to sweeten that.
Btw in due time I will start measuring the DAC, and show some figures.

What I didn't tell so far, is that nearly all preparations have been taken in order to produce this DAC and sell it. Yep, and in its own dedicated "Phasure NOS1" cabinet. Before production really can start though, one thing has to be worked out and this is a tough one. This is btw also the reason of telling about the production, because I know quite some people are waiting for answers on this, but in the mean time I now know this is going to take a while. So Yes, but Wait.

So what are we waiting for ?

With my ever planned 32/384 DAC I planned a special connection to the PC which has never been done before. That is, not that I know of, and there isn't any reason for it also with other manufacturers;
Then, in this topic I expressed about wanting a general I2S connection. This I2S connection should work for PC's just the same. And as you may know, it is (AFAIK) the most jitter free connection;
I tried this with Firewire as the first carrier, but this is a dead end. I just can't find any Firewire boards with manufacturers that want to sell something, or otherwise the drivers s*ck and access to the SDKs etc. is (too) difficult.
So now I combined my old plan with this new DAC ...

The good news is : I have it working. Thus, no SPDIF, no USB, no Firewire/ADAT or something, but native I2S with a "secret" connection to the PC.
The bad news is : the stupid DAC board only accepts I2S when in Oversampling mode ...

So, after all the hard work it now appears that I2S cannot be used in NOS mode. Yuk.
And "sadly" the nature of the I2S connection indeed sounds better than SPDIF, and it just gives the sweetness I talked about in the above. I know, comparing is a bit of apples and oranges, but since SPDIF can be used in OS mode just the same, this difference in the nature of the sound is very clear.

Again (like with the ESS) 1 million people most certainly will love the sound coming from OS mode. But this will last until they hear NOS mode. Again OS just doesn't cut it, and compared with NOS mode, OS to me sounds like a dead bird. Too sweet, and nothing seems to jump out, while I am sure each musician does his/her stinking best to let his/her instrument jump out. With NOS they do ...

All 'n all right now I am into deep trouble. Well, kind of;
The DAC board wasn't explicitly designed for NOS mode, and although everything looked good so far, this is where the tweaking stops.
Someone has to go back to the drawing board ... Cry

Peter

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W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2009, 11:36:20 am »

pity
but you´ll come up with something
in the meantime:
the buffalo sounds excellent despite os.
BUT the sound varied very much with gnd scheme and after I replaced the onboard LM317 regulators on the double psu for the buffalo with LT1085 the sound took a turn towards sweeter and more nos like
will do same on ivy where 317 is replaced by lt 1085 and 337 by lt1033.
that´s it for now
best
Leif
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