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Author Topic: Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ  (Read 223005 times)
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boleary
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« Reply #330 on: October 29, 2014, 12:09:20 pm »

Joachim, am wondering what your impression of Peter's cable, the Blaxius, has been compared to your RG 223? Did you upgrade to the "75b"version of the NOS1a? I received a RG 223 cable yesterday and "out of the box" it sounded as good as my RG 142. Am letting it burn in a few days before any serious listening. Thanks

Brian
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« Reply #331 on: October 29, 2014, 12:23:08 pm »

Joachim, am wondering what your impression of Peter's cable, the Blaxius, has been compared to your RG 223? Did you upgrade to the "75b"version of the NOS1a? I received a RG 223 cable yesterday and "out of the box" it sounded as good as my RG 142. Am letting it burn in a few days before any serious listening. Thanks

Brian

Hi Brian,

the RG 142  has a "stranded core" and the RG 223 has a "single core" wire and in my opinion the difference shouldn't be high.

Peters Blaxius is still "on the road" because the Finnish transportation is slowly sometimes/most of the time.

It is not my intention to upgrade the NOS1 (to a 75B) in the near future, because the poweramp cannot be modified with/to a 75Ohm inlet socket, AND the SQ is really great at the moment.

Joachim
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« Reply #332 on: October 29, 2014, 12:40:51 pm »

It is not my intention to upgrade the NOS1 (to a 75B) in the near future... the SQ is really great at the moment.

Very, very wise Joachim.

(Sometimes I wonder whether I'm just going around in circles - sure, even small things change the sound, but I can't always say it's for the better. Once I reach the point where I can say "the SQ is really great", I will make further changes only with great consideration. Not quite there yet, but I have a feeling I will be soon with some ideas I have.)

Mani.
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« Reply #333 on: October 29, 2014, 12:54:12 pm »

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Sometimes I wonder whether I'm just going around in circles - sure, even small things change the sound, but I can't always say it's for the better.

This is why I keep asking you guys about your cable impressions. Adding the bnc cable to my system revolutionized the sound. I had no idea how much upper mid and higher frequencies I was loosing with my prior solid core silver RCA cable. The sound here, for my modest system, is so good now I'm having a hard time imagining that the NOS1a upgrade will be a significant change. However, the consensus here is so clear that the "a" upgrade is significantly better that I'll be sending my dac to Peter relatively soon. Now, being a bit of a PITA I'm trying to gauge whether I should include the "75b" in the upgrade. Thanks for your patience, especially you Peter.  Happy
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« Reply #334 on: October 29, 2014, 01:06:12 pm »

As I said in other posts, I use, like others I guess, XLR cables because my amps have only that type of connection. I wonder if I could connect a BNC cable with a XLR/BNC adapter or even a XLR/RCA and RCA/BNC adapter. Would it be possible? What would be the best way to use a BNC cable if I have only XLR connections in my amps?

Juan
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« Reply #335 on: October 29, 2014, 01:14:21 pm »

Hey Juan here's a bundh of bnc/xlr adapters: http://www.fullcompass.com/category/BNC-To-XLR-Adapters.html

Right now I'm using a bnc/rca adapter and it's worked well.
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« Reply #336 on: October 29, 2014, 02:35:29 pm »

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I made a comparison between a XLR Nordost SPM and a RCA Nordost Valkyria and the difference was insignificant to my ears at that time and so I stuck to cables with RCA connectors.

Joachim

I doubt if you can draw a general conclusion like this. Isn't the fact if a amplifier is differential or single ended an importent parameter in the equation?

It could work out differently for different topologies.

So I will try out for myself anyway  yes

Regards,
Stanley
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« Reply #337 on: October 29, 2014, 04:11:46 pm »

Hey Guys,

I thought I would pipe in since I was using all XLR cabling, but I am now using BNC coax between my NOS1a and my MID/Tweeter amp.(balanced cabling is still being used from the crossover to the two bass amps covering 260hz on down)

Even with BNC to RCA Adaptors at the NOS1a and XLR to RCA plus BNC to RCA Adaptors at the amp input, the sound was clearly better using the 50ohm BNC cable.

And by better I mean much greater detail, better timbre, with a deeper and more accurate sound stage.(smoother and more natural but with much more information) This is readily apparent in the realism and dynamics of cymbals and violins but also in male & female vocals)

Putting the balanced cabling back in is like draping a curtain between me and the speakers. I'm simply amazed that you don't know what your missing until you've heard something more resolving and then try to go back.

The only thing I'm missing is the gain I had with the balanced outs of the NOS1a which doesn't allow me to listen to some of my classical music at full scale.

I will be trying the 75ohm RG11 cabling soon with proper 75ohm BNC connections at the NOS1a and my mid/high amp. I will also probably modify the input sensitivity of the amp to recover the lost gain going to single-ended input.

Hope this gives some of you with XLR some frame of reference.

Todd
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« Reply #338 on: October 29, 2014, 04:33:18 pm »

Hey Juan here's a bundh of bnc/xlr adapters: http://www.fullcompass.com/category/BNC-To-XLR-Adapters.html

Right now I'm using a bnc/rca adapter and it's worked well.

Hi Brian, thanks for the link. I still have some doubts because some days ago I put a post asking about the Neutrik adapters and transformers and it is not clear if they will work, the problem is that the RCA connector has an impedance of 75 Ohm, same as the coaxial cable, so with an adapter is ok, but the XLR connector is 110 Ohm and I´m not sure if it needs an adapter or a impedance transformer.

Impedance transformer: http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/aes-ebu-impedance-transformers/

Adapter: http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/circular-adapters/na2fbnc

I appreciate some help on this regard because I´d really would like to test the BNC cable.

On the other hand if it works and I like the BNC cable more than the interconnects that I use now, what to do? I could send the NOS1a again to Peter to adapt the BNC connectors or perhaps make it here with a technician, but what happens with my XLR amps? That´s what at the end I´d like to know, is it possible to adapt a XLR amp to BNC?




Hey Guys,

I thought I would pipe in since I was using all XLR cabling, but I am now using BNC coax between my NOS1a and my MID/Tweeter amp.(balanced cabling is still being used from the crossover to the two bass amps covering 260hz on down)

Even with BNC to RCA Adaptors at the NOS1a and XLR to RCA plus BNC to RCA Adaptors at the amp input, the sound was clearly better using the 50ohm BNC cable.

And by better I mean much greater detail, better timbre, with a deeper and more accurate sound stage.(smoother and more natural but with much more information) This is readily apparent in the realism and dynamics of cymbals and violins but also in male & female vocals)

Putting the balanced cabling back in is like draping a curtain between me and the speakers. I'm simply amazed that you don't know what your missing until you've heard something more resolving and then try to go back.

The only thing I'm missing is the gain I had with the balanced outs of the NOS1a which doesn't allow me to listen to some of my classical music at full scale.

I will be trying the 75ohm RG11 cabling soon with proper 75ohm BNC connections at the NOS1a and my mid/high amp. I will also probably modify the input sensitivity of the amp to recover the lost gain going to single-ended input.

Hope this gives some of you with XLR some frame of reference.

Todd


Todd, thanks for the information. So you are going to modify the NOS1a with BNC connectors but, besides your modification of the input sensitivity in your amps, what kind of connector you are going to use, XLR/RCA and RCA/BNC? is this combination of adapters the best way to do it?

Regards,
Juan
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« Reply #339 on: October 29, 2014, 05:00:33 pm »

Hi Juan,

In my case since my amps are self-built Hypex NCores, I can replace the current XLR inputs with BNC. I will, however, do that after listening with just the NOS1a converted to BNC, so I can report back what kind of difference I heard between using Adaptors at the amplifier inputs and with them converted to BNC. For those with amps that can't be modified, I should be able to let you know if it made any difference or not.

I will add one small observation, with the balanced connection on the NCores, I can barely hear the noise floor with my ear right up to the tweeter. With the single-ended input I definitely can hear in slight hint of power line noise(probably a 60Hz harmonic) with my ear up to the tweeter. So I will have to look at all my mains connections and try to eliminate that.

Todd
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« Reply #340 on: October 29, 2014, 06:08:42 pm »

All, but mainly Juan I think,

Some times you are all quite fast with everything or maybe "very eager". So it's almost impossible to answer upon specifics, thus now maybe more generally :

Balanced (XLR) has no termination and certainly not 110 Ohm (I think I said that before). However, digital "links" will exist for XLR and that's why the "to 110 Ohm" converters will exist ("digital" is often 110 Ohm). Otherwise such transformers should be avoided.
And FYI : XLR/balanced is officially 600 Ohm.

Next, in my view all power amps can be adjusted from balanced (in) to single ended, although not by guarantee. Just ask your manufacturer and he will tell (I know, the "just" is a bit on the easy side Wink). But usually it is about connecting one of the hot leads to ground and done. And when you are that far you will also see how you can change the XLR connector to RCA. Ehm, BNC because that is the same (procedure).
Next - although I did not sort it out - I am fairly sure we can provide BCN to XLR means in a way which comes down to almost the same as you replacing the XLR connector in your amp. So now you won't need to do that but you will have an additional connector (same like with the BNC to RCA connector which NO-NODY complains about because ... they don't know better anyway. Nice eh ?)

Sending back your NOS1a's AGAIN ? NO. I already won't allow that because by now we all might be fed up with sending out our D/A converters.

Despite the above, it is not necessary because you can do it yourselves with the means we will provide (along with the cable). One thing : that means has to be tested thoroughly over here which will happen very soon (it needed a well burned-in NOS1 who's owner wants the impedance update in the first place and such a NOS1 is here right now).

What is and remains is the amp side and when that is not provided with the 75 Ohm termination I can't tell what will happen. So ... those who ordered the cable will be able to try with their BNC to RCA converters and it *still* will (?) be for the better (here it was when I tried myself). IOW you will get the whole set anyway, and you can try what you like, beginning with the cable only (and to-RCA converters of your own).
This now of course was about those with RCA inputs to their amps. The XLR inputs was dealt with above.

Lastly, we all should not be too much "obsessed". I know, we inherently all are because of our hobby, and true, it will matter a lot. However, if you listen to Brian (boleary) and see that one can also think "why the heck would I want it better again" then this is good for your heart and mood and maybe more. Maybe it is better to think a bit about my own "obsession" which
a. likes you to have this "upgrade" but
b. has a nightnare hard time to get it right without actually knowing. Really so !
If you read a bit through the combinations in this post then you see it is not so easy.

Best regards,
Peter
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« Reply #341 on: October 29, 2014, 07:29:17 pm »

I was super impressed with the B75's when I first installed them. There was an incredible amount of detail and very impressive. Since then I increased the output impedance of the NOS1a to 75ohm (within approx. .1 to .2 ohm) and I do not think that has made much difference compared with the difference the B75's made.

However, over the last couple of weeks it has become clear that the B75's have a hard edge to the sound that really started to drive me crazy. So on Monday I ordered some BNC male to RCA female adapters and just now with the adapters in place I put my old RCA interconnects in.

How could I have got it so wrong? - these RCA's are far superior. They have a smooth and relaxing sound - very natural sounding. What it seems to me is that the B75's initially impress with what seems to be more detail - but from what I am hearing now that detail is hash added to the sound. So come the weekend I shall be putting back the RCA sockets in NOS1a and speakers and returning to my trusty interconnects that are so much better than everything I have tried them against.

Actually this is a huge relief because I was really starting to get worried about the sound of my system.

Also what this proves to me again (as has happened more than once over the last few years) is that interconnects are absolutely fundamental (Nick loves that word!!) to quality of sound in a system. My experiments with coax are over for the foreseeable future.

Cheers

Paul
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« Reply #342 on: October 29, 2014, 07:36:46 pm »


However, over the last couple of weeks it has become clear that the B75's have a hard edge to the sound that really started to drive me crazy.

Cheers
Paul

Hi Paul,

the highs?

Joachim

Edit: What is "hash" in audio terms?

Copy from Stereophile:

hash A very coarse texturing of the sound, characterized by a sharp-edged, spiky roughness. Caused by severe distortion with strong transient content, as from a grossly mistracking phono cartridge.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #343 on: October 29, 2014, 08:02:07 pm »

Paul,

No *single way* that happens here.

Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
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*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #344 on: October 29, 2014, 08:22:44 pm »

...
Next - although I did not sort it out - I am fairly sure we can provide BCN to XLR means in a way which comes down to almost the same as you replacing the XLR connector in your amp. So now you won't need to do that but you will have an additional connector (same like with the BNC to RCA connector which NO-NODY complains about because ... they don't know better anyway. Nice eh ?)

Hi Peter, thanks, that´s ok I´ll wait until you have that cable ready and we´ll see if I´m able to adapt it to my amps.


...Lastly, we all should not be too much "obsessed". I know, we inherently all are because of our hobby, and true, it will matter a lot. However, if you listen to Brian (boleary) and see that one can also think "why the heck would I want it better again" then this is good for your heart and mood and maybe more. Maybe it is better to think a bit about my own "obsession" ...
Peter

Yes you are right, sometimes, or better said always, we are eager to try different things to improve the sound. As you said that´s part of the game and maybe I should stay quieter but...then it would not be so fun. Wisdom is in the equilibrium, so I have to split the time between anxiety and calm or in other words between looking for and listening (music).

To make things more interesting now appear opinions in the opposite direction (Paul), so yes, it is time to wait and see what others think.

Regards,
Juan
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Audio Pc: Processor i7 970: 3200MHz (reduced to 1668MHz), 6+6 cores/ RAM Corsair DDR3, 24Gb, 1333MHz/ Mb Asus X58 Sabertooth/ OS and XXHE in Peter's RAM-Disk / The CPU fan is the only one in the Audio Pc: NF-S12A (600rpm/6.7db)/ No graphic card/ Power supply: Seasonic SS-400FL2, fanless.

Configuration and Updates in HOW I'VE BUILT MY NEW PC...http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1673.0

XXHighEnd: 2.10. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN/ KS:Phasure NOS1 Out 4.0/ #4 Engine/ Adaptive Mode/ Q1=30 Q3=1, Q4=1, Q5=1, xQ1=40/ Dev.Buffer: 4096/ ClockRes: 15ms/ Straight Contiguous/ SFS: 5.19 (max 120)/ Not Invert/ Phase Alignment Off/ Allow format change/ Decode HDCD/ Playerprio: Low/ ThreadPrio: Real Time/ Scheme: Core 3-5/ UnAttended/ Not Switch during Playback Off/ Playback Drive none/ UnAttended/ Include Garbage Collect/ Copy to XX Drive by standard/ Always clear Proxy before Playback/ Stop Desktop Services/ Stop Remaining Services/ Stop All Services: Off/ Keep LAN Services: On - Persist: Off/ Use Remote Desktop/ Minimize OS/ XTweaks : Balanced Load 52/ Nervous Rate 10/ Cool when Idle -/ Provide Stable Power 0/ Utilize Cores always 1/ Time Performance Index: Optimal / Time Stability: Stable / Arc Prediction.

Music Server PC (W10) totally silent with OS (W10) in SSD and music inside in SSDs - RDC > Ethernet Gigabyte cable 3m > Audio Pc > 1m USB Lush cable directly from the USB3.0 in the motherboard > PHASURE NOS1a-75B-G3 (Driver v1.0.4) 16ms > Blaxius BNC interconnects > Genelec 1037B 3-Way Active speakers with BNC inputs
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